Our stupid Judges

Central Fl Cracker

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Central Florida
SAN FRANCISCO - A federal appeals court on Thursday overturned the ban on imports of Canadian cattle, throwing out a lower court's ruling that renewing the imports could spread mad cow disease in the United States.

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The U.S. Department of Agriculture was not immediately available to comment on when it would allow imports of Canadian cattle to resume. The imports were banned in May 2003 after a cow in Alberta was found to have mad cow disease.

The unanimous decision by a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals overturns a Montana judge who blocked the USDA from reopening the border in March, saying it "subjects the entire U.S. beef industry to potentially catastrophic damages" and "presents a genuine risk of death for U.S. consumers."

The justices said they would issue another ruling soon explaining their rationale.

The decision came a day after the Justice Department urged the appeals court in Seattle to reopen the border to imports. Justice Department attorney Mark Stern said lifting the ban is based on "good science" and would not result in the "infestation in American livestock."

During the hearing, the three judges suggested that U.S. District Judge Richard F. Cebull perhaps should have given deference to the USDA's decision.

Judge A. Wallace Tashima said the law "does invest the secretary of agriculture with a certain amount of discretion."

Judge Connie Callahan agreed, saying the USDA is "entitled to some deference. It's their whole job to keep up with the science to make those decisions."

American Meat Institute President J. Patrick Boyle said the industry will be able to resume cattle shipments quickly. "A lot of the preliminary work is already done. I think you'll see the industry move quickly," he said.

U.S. cattlemen are getting more for their cows without the competition of Canadian beef, but profits have declined at packers and feedlots, which are paying higher prices for cattle to process. They say Canadian cattle are safe, and that the ranchers are more interested in monopolizing supplies than protecting the meat-eating public.

Boyle said the ruling is also "a win for American consumers who were paying $1.85 a pound for ground beef before the border closed and are paying about $2.55 today."

Speaking in Ottawa before the appellate court was released, Boyle blamed the ban for the loss of more than 8,000 jobs in the U.S. meat packing industry.

The Canadian Cattlemen's Association, which represents some 90,000 beef producers, estimates they have lost more than $5.6 billion since the ban was established.

"This is a tremendous victory for the northwest beef industry," said Cody Easterday, who runs an 18,000-head feedlot in Pasco, Wash. "It's basically going to protect our future for many families that depend on the beef industry for their livelihood."

Mad cow disease is the common name for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE. People who eat meat tainted with BSE can contract a degenerative, fatal brain disorder called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. More than 150 people died from it following a 1986 outbreak in the United Kingdom.
 
The last paragraph in Cracker's post is a case of "Tell a lie often enough it becomes accepted as truth"

Contracting CJ from beef is a THEORY!!! I keep asking to see the PROOF So far I have not been able to find any.

The ruminant protein causing BSE is another THEORY yet to be proven.
 
Orerancher":3kct4xkz said:
The last paragraph in Cracker's post is a case of "Tell a lie often enough it becomes accepted as truth"

Contracting CJ from beef is a THEORY!!! I keep asking to see the PROOF So far I have not been able to find any.

The ruminant protein causing BSE is another THEORY yet to be proven.

In science, "Theories" stand until disproven. Don't think there aren't people out there trying either. Until disproven, I would rather err on the side of caution for the sake of the beef industry.
 
MikeC":1w11uxa3 said:
Orerancher":1w11uxa3 said:
The last paragraph in Cracker's post is a case of "Tell a lie often enough it becomes accepted as truth"

Contracting CJ from beef is a THEORY!!! I keep asking to see the PROOF So far I have not been able to find any.

The ruminant protein causing BSE is another THEORY yet to be proven.

In science, "Theories" stand until disproven. Don't think there aren't people out there trying either. Until disproven, I would rather err on the side of caution for the sake of the beef industry.

So what are you trying to say here... Callis
 
frenchie":ci8wgbhn said:
MikeC":ci8wgbhn said:
Orerancher":ci8wgbhn said:
The last paragraph in Cracker's post is a case of "Tell a lie often enough it becomes accepted as truth"

Contracting CJ from beef is a THEORY!!! I keep asking to see the PROOF So far I have not been able to find any.

The ruminant protein causing BSE is another THEORY yet to be proven.

In science, "Theories" stand until disproven. Don't think there aren't people out there trying either. Until disproven, I would rather err on the side of caution for the sake of the beef industry.

So what are you trying to say here... Callis

What? I had hoped my statement was self-explanatory? Was it not?
 
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MikeC":18wotlmt said:
frenchie":18wotlmt said:
MikeC":18wotlmt said:
Orerancher":18wotlmt said:
The last paragraph in Cracker's post is a case of "Tell a lie often enough it becomes accepted as truth"

Contracting CJ from beef is a THEORY!!! I keep asking to see the PROOF So far I have not been able to find any.

The ruminant protein causing BSE is another THEORY yet to be proven.

In science, "Theories" stand until disproven. Don't think there aren't people out there trying either. Until disproven, I would rather err on the side of caution for the sake of the beef industry.

So what are you trying to say here... Callis

What? I had hoped my statement was self-explanatory? Was it not?

By saying you would rather err on the side of caution ..are you saying the border should be closed. or what ?
 
frenchie":21x095sr said:
MikeC":21x095sr said:
frenchie":21x095sr said:
MikeC":21x095sr said:
Orerancher":21x095sr said:
The last paragraph in Cracker's post is a case of "Tell a lie often enough it becomes accepted as truth"

Contracting CJ from beef is a THEORY!!! I keep asking to see the PROOF So far I have not been able to find any.

The ruminant protein causing BSE is another THEORY yet to be proven.

In science, "Theories" stand until disproven. Don't think there aren't people out there trying either. Until disproven, I would rather err on the side of caution for the sake of the beef industry.

So what are you trying to say here... Callis

What? I had hoped my statement was self-explanatory? Was it not?

By saying you would rather err on the side of caution ..are you saying the border should be closed. or what ?

More testing and research mainly. Wipe it out completely and get the thorn out of our side. The border opening is fine with me. Just do what it takes to get Japan open too.
 
r-calf will file another suite and probably get some other wacko judge to listen them and rule the opposite.

dun
 
I was expecting something about showing cattle from that
subject line.

Personally, I hope the border issue is finally resolved. It has been like a black cloud hangin over my business all spring. I look forward to normal markets, where sound indicators dictate,
prices. We have been in uncharted waters, since this whole thing began. I't has been good for cow/calf people, I'm happy for you. It was your turn, usually seems it's the packer or the feeder, profiting off what you produce. Hope you all have more good years to come.
But in all reality I think cattle are too HIGH!!! If the folks on up the chain aren't making money, sooner or later they will be forced to quit. Small, poor boys like myself will be the first to go. That will eliminate competition, something the whole cattle industry is built on. These smaller people may only buy a fraction of what the big companies do, BUT they are in the market to bid on all of them. Which determines what the big boys pay for your calves.
I sure don't want the markets to CRASH or anything, because of the judges ruling. Do producers really need a-buck-fifty for
a 5wt. steer? They could be a hundred dollars a head cheaper,
and still be higher than before all this chaos. Fats have come from over a dollar to the VERY low 80's, while the feeder cattle keep cruising right along. Do these folks think the feeders will make money, probably not. They are probably trying to keep cattle in the pens, so they can keep employees, and everyone have a job, when the day comes that business is back to normal. They had a record-breakin year, last year to carry them through this one, but to expect feeders to operate very long in the red is asking too much. I'm for opening the border,
so maybe we can quit cutting our own throats, fighting over
feeder cattle, that we know don't pencil out. Just for the sake of staying in business.
I know lots of you will have different feelings on this and I respect that. I just felt like venting a little, and giving a little in-sight from the other side of the fence, a side that isn't heard from as much, when it comes to these issues. We had a really strong market, before the border closed. Everyone was gettin a piece of it, even the Canadians. Life was good. ;-)

Respectfully,
Longtails
 
Longtails4Me":1j5m9r3o said:
I know lots of you will have different feelings on this and I respect that. I just felt like venting a little, and giving a little in-sight from the other side of the fence, a side that isn't heard from as much, when it comes to these issues. We had a really strong market, before the border closed. Everyone was gettin a piece of it, even the Canadians. Life was good. ;-)

Respectfully,
Longtails

While I do respect your right to an opinion I don't see where Canada really does anything for us. We let you bring your cattle in and sell them which lowers our selling prices. We let you come down and spend the winters without having to worry about half the taxes the rest of us have to pay here. We give you all the rights of an American while you are here. WHAT DO YOU DO FOR US? My point is, this should be two sided not a single edged sword. Producers here in the US have gone for many, many years just getting enough per pound to get by on. I remember selling calves at 15 cents a pound (dating myself). I also remember selling at 50 cents a pound a seeing it on the shelf for $2/pound. I think it's about time the producers got their share since they do most of the work and usually have the most invested collectively. If that means keeping the borders closed, so be it.
Personally I think any beef brought across the border should be taxed/pound and maybe it is. If it is then it must not be a high enough tax if Canada finds it more lucrative to sell them here. Oh, and quit sending those stupid dairy cows down here and selling them as beef.

Well, I guess I got that off of my chest. Bring it on! :cboy:
 
Canada is a hell of a lot better neighbor than what we have to the South of us...I do argee with the Producers, meaning US to make a fair profit. the canadian cattlemen are just like us. I believe they have really suffered. Try putting the boot on your foot in this situation.
 
Crowderfarms":2ii4ckov said:
Canada is a hell of a lot better neighbor than what we have to the South of us...I do argee with the Producers, meaning US to make a fair profit. the canadian cattlemen are just like us. I believe they have really suffered. Try putting the boot on your foot in this situation.

My boots fit very well thank you. I agree with your statement about the Southern borders also. I never said the canadian cattle producers haven't suffered but so have we. We allow all this foreign beef to be imported which affects my bottom line. I guess I shouldn't complain we let them import Mexicans, Arabs, Hispanics, Cubans, and the list goes on and on. They don't pay any taxes either and get social security benefits when they get old enough.
 
Flaboy, The imported people get benefits we'll never even see.They get them way before us.You could float over here in a 1948 Taxicab, and get all you would ever need.
 
flaboy":2wpca4qh said:
While I do respect your right to an opinion I don't see where Canada really does anything for us. We let you bring your cattle in and sell them which lowers our selling prices. :

Welcome to the real world.Canada took your beef during this crisis.It lowered my paycheck.

flaboy":2wpca4qh said:
Personally I think any beef brought across the border should be taxed/pound and maybe it is. If it is then it must not be a high enough tax if Canada finds it more lucrative to sell them here. Oh, and quit sending those stupid dairy cows down here and selling them as beef.:

Well, I guess I got that off of my chest. Bring it on! :cboy:

Careful what you wish for as far as tariffs.

And as far as cows they are still banned.Do your homework. ;-)
 
flaboy":2mrt61yk said:
Longtails4Me":2mrt61yk said:
I know lots of you will have different feelings on this and I respect that. I just felt like venting a little, and giving a little in-sight from the other side of the fence, a side that isn't heard from as much, when it comes to these issues. We had a really strong market, before the border closed. Everyone was gettin a piece of it, even the Canadians. Life was good. ;-)

Respectfully,
Longtails

While I do respect your right to an opinion I don't see where Canada really does anything for us. We let you bring your cattle in and sell them which lowers our selling prices. We let you come down and spend the winters without having to worry about half the taxes the rest of us have to pay here. We give you all the rights of an American while you are here. WHAT DO YOU DO FOR US? My point is, this should be two sided not a single edged sword. Producers here in the US have gone for many, many years just getting enough per pound to get by on. I remember selling calves at 15 cents a pound (dating myself). I also remember selling at 50 cents a pound a seeing it on the shelf for $2/pound. I think it's about time the producers got their share since they do most of the work and usually have the most invested collectively. If that means keeping the borders closed, so be it.
Personally I think any beef brought across the border should be taxed/pound and maybe it is. If it is then it must not be a high enough tax if Canada finds it more lucrative to sell them here. Oh, and quit sending those stupid dairy cows down here and selling them as beef.

Well, I guess I got that off of my chest. Bring it on! :cboy:

fla- Does that stand for flatulent cause that's what I think when I see that flatulent boy :lol: . As far as what we do for the US. We are your biggest trading partner. As a matter of fact 50 centrs of every dollar spent in Canada goes to a US company. On an equal taxation basis per product, it would cost the US far more than it would cost Canada. That's probably why there is no tax. If it was the other way, then I'm sure there would be a tax. Also, we have this agreement that was thrust upon us called NAFTA which was supposed to help us but has actually seriously lowered our standard of living in Canada. We were never so dependent on the American market before the free trade agreement. But after it was signed, we were encouraged to ramp our production to meet US demand. Then the door got slammed on us and now we have a backlog of cattle. Here's some advice for you 'Before you go shooting off your mouth, make sure your brains are loaded.' :mad:
 
Cattle Rack Rancher":iiag22js said:
fla- Does that stand for flatulent cause that's what I think when I see that flatulent boy :lol: . As far as what we do for the US. We are your biggest trading partner. As a matter of fact 50 centrs of every dollar spent in Canada goes to a US company. On an equal taxation basis per product, it would cost the US far more than it would cost Canada. That's probably why there is no tax. If it was the other way, then I'm sure there would be a tax. Also, we have this agreement that was thrust upon us called NAFTA which was supposed to help us but has actually seriously lowered our standard of living in Canada. We were never so dependent on the American market before the free trade agreement. But after it was signed, we were encouraged to ramp our production to meet US demand. Then the door got slammed on us and now we have a backlog of cattle. Here's some advice for you 'Before you go shooting off your mouth, make sure your brains are loaded.' :mad:

oooh, it seems I hit a nerve. Now not only do they not do anything for us, they also call us names. Where's your proof of the every 50 cents going to a US company. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Recently quoted in the New York Post "In 1999-2003, Canada was the fourth-largest importer of U.S. beef behind Japan, Mexico and South Korea, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture." If you guys have such a surplus, why are you buying our beef? I understand the fact that ban hurt the cattleman in Canada but in my mind they have been hurting us for many, many years by bringing their beef here to sell. Like I said before, it wasn't until recently that the producer finally started to get his fair share. There is more going on here than meets the eye. The US can and always has produced more beef than the US needs. Why do we need to import beef from Canada? Well to make somebody rich. Someone is buying it cheap from Canada and selling it high is the bottom line.
As far as NAFTA, I am not sure how it has personally affected the Canadian producers but I know that after NAFTA the imports from both Mexico and Canada went up several billion dollars so I don't think it must have hurt too much. This happened in 1988 anyway do you hold a grudge that long?
Since you seem eager to pass out advice, here is a little for you. Pull you head out of your arse before your flatulence blows your brains out.
 
frenchie":3f091yow said:
Welcome to the real world.Canada took your beef during this crisis.It lowered my paycheck.

Canada has been importing our beef for many, many years. I AM sorry it lowered your paycheck but it finally helped mine and the producers down here.

Careful what you wish for as far as tariffs.

And as far as cows they are still banned.Do your homework. ;-)

NAFTA protects you from such a tariff. I did my home work maybe you should. Just because the first cow hasn't crossed the border yet? As of yesterday it's open but then your laywers and ours have to make some money too by streching this out. Seems everyone wants a piece of steak these days.
 
frenchie":3um7a4dm said:
Welcome to the real world.Canada took your beef during this crisis.It lowered my paycheck.

flaboy":3um7a4dm said:
[Canada has been importing our beef for many, many years. I AM sorry it lowered your paycheck but it finally helped mine and the producers down here.

so you want it both ways then.

frenchie":3um7a4dm said:
Careful what you wish for as far as tariffs.

flaboy":3um7a4dm said:
. NAFTA protects you from such a tariff

.And NAFTA does not protect Canadians against tariffs , just ask the softwood lumber boys, or the pork producers here.

It may be illegall yet it was still done

frenchie":3um7a4dm said:
And as far as cows they are still banned.Do your homework. ;-)

flaboy":3um7a4dm said:
[. I did my home work maybe you should. .

Yes open to cattle under 30 months, How many cows you seen under 30 months.FlaBoy

Time for you to go to the school of reality, my friend.

.
 

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