One Bull only

[IluvABbeef]

I figgered out what and how I'm going about things for my dream cow-calf herd, but now I ran into another stumbling block: bulls.

I've got two options: AI or Purchase a Bull.

Now, say I'm going to go the direction of purchasing a bull for replacements, AI is not an option. I only want one bull because I only have ROOM for one bull. But my problem is is that I want to avoid inbreeding as much as possible, and since a bull usually lasts only about two breeding seasons on any place, and those replacement females need to be bred by next year when they're 15 months old, what do I do? Or I should say, what SHOULD I do?? Sell the first bull and get another one and keep doing that for every year....??

Again, I only have room for one bull and cannot make room for another one, no matter what.

As for AI...well, that solves THAT problem. ;-) But that's what I'm not asking about.


I'm not going to be on here very much, it'll probably be a week or so before I can get back on here because the dial-up back at the farm has been canceled. So right now, the only internet I have access to is in the city. But other than that, I'd like to hear some input on this problem. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bullbuyer]

Small operation - lease a bull.
Large operation - buy a bull / replace as necessary.

 

[Beefy]

you need to keep him for 3 calving seasons to get the most calves out of him for your money and prevent inbreeding. that means selling all of his heifer calves the first year OR separating them. i was wondering why you hadnt been on lately.

 

[flaboy?]

If these are first calf heifers I wouldn't keep the off-spring any way.

 

[Beefy]

why not fb?

 

[flaboy?]

why not fb?

I don't think a high percentage of first calves grow off well enough to be keepers. I don't risk it any more. I ship all first calves. This is not to say some first calves are not super stars. I don't know too many cow/calf operations down here that keep first calves as replacements.

Again, this is just my experience and opinion.

 

[IluvABbeef]

why not fb?

I don't think a high percentage of first calves grow off well enough to be keepers. I don't risk it any more. I ship all first calves. This is not to say some first calves are not super stars. I don't know too many cow/calf operations down here that keep first calves as replacements.

Again, this is just my experience and opinion.

Now THAT's something I've never heard of before. I am thinking of going with first calf heifers, but it depends on what comes up.

 

[dun]

why not fb?

I don't think a high percentage of first calves grow off well enough to be keepers. I don't risk it any more. I ship all first calves. This is not to say some first calves are not super stars. I don't know too many cow/calf operations down here that keep first calves as replacements.

Again, this is just my experience and opinion.

Now THAT's something I've never heard of before. I am thinking of going with first calf heifers, but it depends on what comes up.

It's an argument that goes right along with band or knife,creep no creep, ear no ear, black any other color.
We've never had any problem with heifers calves bing to breeding weight/maturity by 12 - 13 months. By the time they calve as 2 year olds you can;t tell the difference between them and those from mature cows. But we don;t use throw away bulls just to get a calf on the gorund from heifers.

 

[C HOLLAND]

why not fb?

I don't think a high percentage of first calves grow off well enough to be keepers. I don't risk it any more. I ship all first calves. This is not to say some first calves are not super stars. I don't know too many cow/calf operations down here that keep first calves as replacements.

Again, this is just my experience and opinion.

Now THAT's something I've never heard of before. I am thinking of going with first calf heifers, but it depends on what comes up.

It's an argument that goes right along with band or knife,creep no creep, ear no ear, black any other color.
We've never had any problem with heifers calves bing to breeding weight/maturity by 12 - 13 months. By the time they calve as 2 year olds you can;t tell the difference between them and those from mature cows. But we don;t use throw away bulls just to get a calf on the gorund from heifers.

I sure am glad our parents didn't cull their kids this way, why would the first born be any less of a replacement bull or heifer. I think this is based on what use to be done, the cattle industry has evolved over time and there have been alot of improvements in the last 30 years. I think its all about selecting the right cow/heifer and selecting the correct bull to improve their weakness.

JMO for what its worth,,,,,,,not much to some :lol: :lol:

 

[Outrigger2]

i agree with bullbuyer. lease a bull . why is AI not a option?

 

[TheBullLady]

I would also vote for leasing a bull. AI probably isn't an option unless you've gone through the training and are good at it. AI is not a sure fire way to get your cows bred.. most good AI techs have been doing it for a long time. A bull will get your herd bred quicker.

I also don't agree with not keeping first calf heifers. I think were that theory got started is for breeders that used an easy calving bull on the heifers the first year, and a "regular" bull after that. An easy calving bull will most likely have a smaller birth weight calf, hence not keeping it as a replacement.

We don't judge our replacements by their birth order.. we judge them by their replacement qualities.

 

[Outrigger2]

we AI'd 90hd in a day. i don't think a bull can do it any quicker JMO

 

[jcarkie]

heifers can be risky, but if you get good ones they last for several years. i would recommend starting with mature cows
(5 yrs-short solid) that are good mothers and not beginners.
are you going to have a breeding season or run the bull year round ? i use a 60 - 75 day season and then i loan my bull to neighbors that i know have clean healthy cattle, and take good care of my bull, but do not have enough (3-9) cows to own a bull. keeps my bull busy and out of my way. we trade out for use of the bull. it works for me.

 

[msscamp]

If these are first calf heifers I wouldn't keep the off-spring any way.

Why? Never mind, just saw why. :lol: :lol:

 

[msscamp]

Now, say I'm going to go the direction of purchasing a bull for replacements, AI is not an option.

Why is AI not an option if you go in this direction?

 

[Beefy]

Now, say I'm going to go the direction of purchasing a bull for replacements, AI is not an option.

Why is AI not an option if you go in this direction?

b/c this is a hypothetical scenario in which AI is not an option. work with her, people.

 

[flaboy?]

Just experiences of mine on first calves. I bought a couple reg RA from a rather large ranch of lets say more than 15,000 acres. He bought the heifers in Montanna bred and had them shipped here. He sold me his "culls". What this means is he kept one of the group of 15.

This belief does not come from using LBW bulls first. This has been drilled into me by the cattlemen down here for over 50 years before EPD's were invented. I just play the odds now and don't keep any rather than cull later. JMHO

 

[blueridge]

I agree that it is a percentage game. I started with all heifers -- not knowing any better -- I purchased the first eight bred to a registered Gelbveigh bull. The other three were bred to a commercial black angus. The calves from the registered bull have been incredible, first calves or not. The other three have been average at best. The key to having the odds in your favor are all in the bull. But again the size of the operation will play a role as well.
If the goal -- which I think it is -- is to retain the heifers, I would buy the best bull that I could afford. You would get to use him for two years before you would have to worry about him breeding his offsprin. Sale then and replace.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner.

Thanks for the input, BTW.

I'm thinking that AI might not be an option because there might be a chance that the closest AI tech (or even place to obtain semen) is over 100 miles away, I don't have facilities for AI (primarily a money factor), or, it's too time consuming.

Anyways, like Beefy said, this is a hypothetical situation, just so's I know what to expect IF I run across this problem.

Again, thanks.