On Farm Bull Test

[cotton1]

I have a few bulls that I will be growing out until next april/may. They are around 7-9 mo now, so by the time I sell them they will be 14-16 months old. I would(or think I would) like to do an on farm feed test on these boys. Its a small group and they are sons of my donor cows. What I dont have are details on how to do the test as I should. I will post my questions here , hoping some of you have done this and can give me the details I need to decide if I want to go thru with it. Thanks in advance
1. What is the appropriate age to start the test?
2. What is the appropriate duration of the test?
3. What ration is best for the test?( I grind my own feed, and can adjust for a higher/lower protien and fat contents)
4. What is a standard feed rate for a test? (2 % body weight, 4% body weight etc)
5. How should feed be distributed, and does it matter if its done the same for the duration of the test?

p.s. Just so you know , I mainly want to do this to compare the different matings with my donor cows, and to see how the 50k/EPD data stacks up in this type situation. Please keep in mind that I dont expect them to recieve any feed when they go to "work" next spring, and they must pass a BSE in late March to avoid being a hamburger. So I cant feed them sterile and need to wean them off of feed in the late Feb.early March time frames. Thanks again

 

[WalnutCrest]

Whatever you end up doing, make sure you disclose it all to your buyers. As long as whatever it is that you're doing is consistently done, done for a logical-sounding reason, and the details are shared with your buyers, you should be fine.

 

[greatgerts]

I would do a little research on what other tests are doing, and go off of that. I think the 7-9 month age is perfect. Most tests I believe are around 120 days. Some tests have bulls on self feeders, while others feed individually. I would figure that as a personal preference.

Let us know what you end up doing. Would love to see the progress!

 

[KNERSIE]

I've done a few in tha past.

Will it be an official test under the auspices of a breeding society or any other official organization? If yes, ask them what their rules and regulations are and follow it strictly.

The shortest we can do is 21 day adaption and 84 days on test (minimum gain for the group 265 lbs over the 84 day period, otherwise it isn't a growth test) We can test for longer at a lower gain too, as long as the group gains 265+lbs, but it kind of defeats the purpose. We have to start the official test before the oldest bull turns 12 months old, but the sooner after weaning the better the convertion rates and lower the cost.

I feed adlib in a cafeteria system, during the adaption phase good hay adlib and start at 1% of body weight TDN of around 80 protein 14% ad 0.1% feedlime to prevent accidosis. Replace hay systematically with straw and increase feed to 1.5% for second week, 2% for third week and from start of test adlib feed and adlib straw in cafeteria system.

The crux of the matter is to keep protein between 12 and 14% and the TDN 80-82% so the bulls gain well, express themselves without getting too fat.

Statistically the test will be worthless if its fewer than 8 bulls, in our case 10 has to complete the test (be a contemporary group from start to finish, sick bulls or bulls that developed any other problem can't be part of the contemporary group to be in the final 10, otherwise it will skew the data.

PS we have to weigh every 2nd week and a representative of the testing organization comes out to do the final two weighings, take measuerements (scrotum, height, length, hide thickness, RTU scans etc)

 

[KNERSIE]

Forgot to add the max age difference between oldest and youngest bull is 100 days, there is a max weight difference as well, but it never came into play so I don't even know what it is.

 

[gizmom]

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0883/

This is a good read about on farm bull test.

gizmom

 

[BC]

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0883/

This is a good read about on farm bull test. gizmom

Thanks for the link, Gizmom. Cotton1 may I suggest that you get with your Extension agent or state Beef specialist and develop a protocol that works for you. You may want to get your Extension agent to come help weigh on and off the test. It gives kind of an unbiased third party look to your test.

 

[cotton1]

Hey, thanks for the advise folks. I only have a small group of 6 so it sounds like the data may not be as good since less than 10 head. I had not considered using an outside agency for this experiment, but I might. My original plan was to get a start date weight and maybe hip height, and figure total pounds of bull and feed at x% of body weight for x number of days. The small group will be fed in a community feed bunk that is 16 feet long. The more aggressive eaters will definatly have an advantage vs a system where each animal is given an exact amount daily. I think it would be a little more fair in the community set up since a heavier weaning weight at the start would warrant more feed per day on an individual basis if using a %bodyweight as a feed rate. Anyway I have never done this before, and really want the data for my own comparison. I probably wont get more or less money for the bulls at sale time but Im sure it wont hurt either. The final weight and measurements would be on the BSE. The Vet will do those measurements including scrotal measurement and semen quality. Any bull I sale as breeding stock has to pass BSE for me to consider it worthy. I can definately make a nice feed in the 12-13% range that should work well using a corn/oats base. All will have access to free choice hay and minerals. Doing it in the winter time limits grazing access, really eliminates it. Gizmom, Im going to check out that link tonight when I come in. Right now have some hay to work. Thanks all

 

[cotton1]

Gizmom, that link is great. I think I can come up with some guidlines using the info gathered so far.My group is so small I dont think I will bother involving any extensions or anything. I want the info for personal use mainly so I think that will be fine. I am pretty sure I will do this even with the small group. The link Gizmom posted has some great guidlines, here are some parts of it that I will consider: Minimum 112 days on feed, 21 day warm up, 21 day cool down periods before and after the 112 day test. Feed should be 12% protien/20% fiber/62-69TDN fed at 1.5 lbs per 100 body weight per day.Weights should be taken 12hrs after all feed and water are removed, or 2 consecutive days weights averaged. The 90 day age spread is a problem and my group may be outside of that. Still a weaned calf that needs to be developed can participate and give me an indication of its capability to grow with max nutrition.My objectives are to compare the test results with EPDs, and 50k markers, and different matings. The idea is to have 2 bulls from each donor sired differently so that I can compare those 2 against each other,and then idividuals against the whole. One other diffence I think I will vary from is the guidlines suggest only 2lbs of hay per day. Im going to be doing this in the winter so, I will likely give more hay than that. I would like to give them a round bale free choice but may consider using square hay to have a better idea of intake. I just think they will need more than 2lbs each a day.Just one square bale per day is like 12lbs each, that dont seem like a lot. It looks like late November or early December for the start, looking to wrap things up in march when BSE time comes. I will post my "rules" here and try to get you all some info on the bulls at the start and then update as we go this winter. If other people will be doing similar test during this time I would love to know how you are going about it, and keep up with your progress/results as well.Also, the 205s have been turned in and I will take measurements and weights to submit to the breed association for yearling data at the appropriate time.

 

[houstoncutter]

Here's another suggestion, one that is truly a test and easy. Plant forage, I assume you can grow annual ryegrass and oats in SC. Get it up and ready to go. Turn the bulls in and have a true test. Personally I wouldn't have a feed bucket bull. Not saying that bull shouldn't loose weight during breeding season, but they shouldn't melt!

 

[double v]

Age is one factor, but weight is the other they need to be separated that way and fed the same ration. This way you can get a good comparison of the animals involved. 90 days is a good number of days for test give a extra 5 days to adjust to pen.

 

[cotton1]

OK, I took the on-test weights today. The group is small, but for my info I am not worried. There will only be 5 young bulls, the clean up bull will be in there most of the time as well. If I pull him to put him to work, the feed will be recalculated based on the remaining calves. I have three donor cows, in this group there is one bull by one donor, and 2 by the other two donors. The individuals by the same donors have different AI sires. So, in this test I look to learn the following: Individual rate of gain, the different between the three donors, the difference between different sires on the same donor. I have warmed them up for several weeks now at about 1-1.5% body weight. The bulls will have free choice hay, and a 24% protein tub, as well as Vigortone minerals. They will be fed at 2-3%body weight,starting at 2% and hopefully increasing to 3%. I will try to take weights in 15 day intervals, as the weather or work allows. I will post these weights for you in case some of you are curious. The feed I make is around 15.5% protein, around 7% fat, 20% or higher fiber. It consists of 1000lbs corn, 300lb cotton seed meal, 50 lb minerals/salt, 500 lbs of 14% protein,7%fat,30% fiber commodity pellet,and 150lbs of 10%protein, 10% fat, 10% fiber sweet feed(lots of molasses). I'm not exactly sure about the fiber content,as a whole, these are guesstimates based on averages. I make several different rations, and have used this one with pleasant results in the past, and don't plan to sample every grinding as I only make about a ton at the time. Here are the participants and there on-test weights: 1. 3N2 in my clean up bull, he will be 2 yo on 11/29/15. His on test weight is 1500lbs even.He really don't count but he is in there so he gets to be in as long as he is off from his work duties, he is a growing boy after all. 2. B31-he is the oldest and the only one off of his donor dam. He is her natural calf from last year. His is 337 days old today and his on test weight is 836lbs. 3. C32-He is the natural calf by his donor dam and one of two by her. He is 326 days old today and his on test weight is 790 lbs. 4. C33-He is a ET calf out of the same dam as C32, He is 326 days old today and his on test weight is 752 lbs 5.C35-he is a ET calf off of a 3rd donor cow and is younger at 277days. His on test weight is 676 lbs 6. C37-He is the natural calf off the same dam as C35 and is 191days old on test weight is 672 lbs. The last two are younger than the first 3 but are out of the same donor and for my info it should make a good comparison between them. I will see if my wife will put some pictures up of the bulls if anybody is interested.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I'm always interested in reading how other guys do things ... maybe I'll get an idea that'll help me. Thanks for posting.

 

[cotton1]

Update: today was the day for the first weights since on test. The results have me upset to say the least. I am dissapointed,but we will keep on. I dont know why the gains are so bad, in this situation I would expect at least a few pounds per day as the normal. I did have 4 out of the 15 days when the feed was not cleaned up at the next feed time. In those cases I skipped a feeding. The bulls did away with a protien tub and a fair amount of hay in the first two weeks, which may be hurting things. The results of the first 15 days are: B31 +14lbs,adg: 0.93, C32 +10lbs,adg:0.66, C33 +18lbs,adg: 1.2, C35 +44lbs,adg 2.93lbs, C37 +18lbs,adg:1.2. The bulls look to be gaining condition by the "eye test" as the football terminology goes, and look to be in good health. I do not understand the lack of gain by the majority. The bulls are being fed at 2.5%body weight split into a.m. and p.m. feedings. Maybe I should feed less and remove the protien tub?Next weights are on 12/22. I will leave feeding rate the same at 130lbs per day. This will change the ration from 2.5% to 2.4% of body weight. Maybe more is less? These are not the type results I need or expected. Again, very dissatisfied on day 15...

 

[Ebenezer]

Hay must be weak. I would not feed bulls any cotton seed meal due to gossypol. Sounds like you will have to increase pounds of ration per day to get more gains.

 

[cotton1]

Ebenezer-I did consider using soybean meal instead of cottonseed meal, but figured the 300# per ton is only about 15% of total feed or roughly 3.2 lbs each per day. I dont think thats enough of their diet to hurt? Anyway I have already made the feed for this next two weeks, so I will consider switching to soybean meal for the next grinding.I wanted to get a lot more alphalfa hay in it, but with only 1000lb corn, the mill works so fast its hard to get more than two or three bales in there.

My estimates on the protein tub are each animal is consuming around 2.2lbs/day. That should keep them hungry, but I think they are filling up on hay. I didnt get the hay tested this year due to the extreme weather we had this fall. It is still very boggy, im sure the quality of the hay is not what it was. All my hay is outside stored and basically stayed wet from mid September till mid November. It is what I have to use, but I have been seeing about twice as much of the outside layers damaged on average and maybe more. I am saving my covered hay for late Jan when my cows have calved, so the bulls will have to eat what they are getting. The hay was put up good and dry, but have been in so much rain since the summer. I know I need a shed for the hay, but my list of needs is very long, my funds very,very short...I will leave the protien tub out for this 15 day segment since I have already made the feed. If results are similar on next weight, I will likely change the feed

 

[WalnutCrest]

Possibly consider adding a pro-biotic to help convert lower quality inputs. Also, it's not uncommon to give animals a month or so of acclimation to a new diet prior to the recording of growth rates.

 

[cotton1]

WalnutCrest-I did have to teach them what grain was in the beginning. They got the hang of it for several weeks prior to the start. Also thinking of the pro-biotics. They basically had no grain prior.Also have had a lot of rainy, and overcast days that seem to effect them some. Just my observation, crazy as it sounds. I think they have been eating lots of hay in the rainy weather to keep warm, and filling up, then not wanting the grain so much. The highest gainer this first time was the big bull, next to him C35. I noticed C35 doesn't like the protein tub. I am thinking the protein tub is a direct correlation to hay consumption, along with the weather. When its sunny for a day or so, they seem to want their grain,be eager to come to the trough. When its cold and rainy, not so much...I had 4 out of 15 days they only got a half ration since they didn't clean up the previous feeding.

 

[cotton1]

Update: had to delay weights due to weather. The results are terrible. Things went from bad to worse this time, and we spent most of the test period trying to figure out what was wrong. The bulls would bareley eat any feed. I decided to leave the protien tub out completely, and ration hay instead of the free choice round bale. I had to work with several friends one of which is a vet that has a lot of experience with nutrition in the beef and dairy cows, and the feed mill owner to figure this out. We basically had to divide the feed up into individual parts as much as possible and see what they would, and would not eat. The consumption of grain fell to about 1/4 of planned ration, and they only really wanted hay. Finally moved remaining feed to the cow herd, and made a new batch for the bulls. In addition, we also wormed again just to be sure. In the new feed we replaced the cotton seed meal with soybean meal, and replaced one of the sweet feeds with granulated molassass. Got the new feed on Monday, and by tuesday evening they were eating like they should. Wed they ate a full ration of feed plus alfalfa hay. These results are terrible,but I look for the next ones to be much better, and did Identify the most resilient bull,C35, and the next best one so far are off of the same mama cow. The big bull lost 25lbs but his data is not being put in with the contemporary group and ratios. 32 days on test: B31 lost 36lbs, adg -1.13, ratio -69.75; C32 zero gain/zero ratio; C33 gained 12lbs, adg 0.37, 22.83 ratio; C35 gained 52lbs, adg 1.62, ratio 100; C37 gained 24lbs, adg 0.75, ratio 46.29. Group cummulative adg:1.62lbs/day

 

[WalnutCrest]

Any chance some of the feed in the first batch had gone bad (mold / mildew) and that's why they weren't interested?