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Noob to Angus cattle and EPDs
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<blockquote data-quote="Jafruech" data-source="post: 1666389" data-attributes="member: 24025"><p>Sorry for the delay in follow-up to my previous post. Been a busy few days breaking ice lol</p><p></p><p>Here's some thoughts I have on everything.</p><p></p><p>1. EPD's give you genotype. Yes you can derive some aspects of phenotype from looking at EPD's but you need to go and see them and really look through bulls in person to get the phenotype you want in addition to the genotype. There's plenty of bulls with near identical EPD's to mine that I wouldn't consider buying because their phenotype doesn't match what I need.</p><p></p><p>2. EPD's are absolutely useless unless you have a clearly defined goal for your herd. I love recordkeeping too...but records are useless unless you have clearly defined milestones to compare them to. </p><p></p><p>3. I highly recommend having 2 things in writing: </p><p>- A business plan that includes marketing, profit goals, input goals, etc and how you plan on getting there.</p><p>-A ranch/herd management plan that clearly states how you are managing your forage, rotation, plans for drought years, hay inputs, mineral program (you should do a forage analysis on your grass to find out where you stand so you aren't wasting money where you don't need it), vaccine program, etc. Then you need to have a clearly defined goals for your herd. I'm not talking chasing WW and YW. In a cow calf operation, your concentration first and foremost is on your cows and bulls. Yes you want good calves...but you don't get good calves by chasing WW and YW and ignoring the cows...especially if you are breeding your own replacements. More on that to follow.</p><p></p><p>4. I know a lot of people that were calving last week, and I just shook my head as they talked about frostbite and lost calves. It's more work, you have a lot more losses, and it is far harder on your cows.</p><p></p><p>I live in a similar environment to you, except I have less rain and less forage. I would STRONGLY recommend moving your calving season to late April/early May. There are several huge benefits to your herd, profit, and your time.</p><p></p><p>-You will be calving on better forage in a time your cows need it the most. Your cows will be in better condition going into calving, and they will gain back condition a lot quicker....which leads to better fertility and rebreeding rates...they can meet and exceed their nutritional requirements, which means the calves are getting more too...oh and the calves will be grazing better quality forage as they grow, and they will grow quicker...it's a domino effect of good things.</p><p></p><p>-Your death/loss rate will be reduced drastically. You don't have to worry about frostbite, you don't have to worry about bringing them in, warming up hypothermic calves...or any of the other myriad of issues that calving in cold weather brings. </p><p></p><p>-I calve in May and sell in December. I wean my calves for 45 days. They don't get creep or grain, but I do feed hay when I start weaning them in November. They typically average 600lbs at sale time.</p><p></p><p>-The market is usually better in December because it isn't as flooded with supply. This year with COVID and the drought it was significantly higher in December. You can always sell on superior or something similar to get a larger audience, or look into selling private treaty.</p><p></p><p>5. Your cows need to fit your environment. One of the top metrics you should be tracking is fleshing and feed efficiency. A cow with a +15 milk EPD is more profitable in my environment than a cow with a +25. Why? Because a cow has to be able to meet her own nutritional needs and milk production before she starts gaining back condition...in higher rainfall areas of the US that's easy. In a lot of others, it isn't. That's one of many reasons cows fall apart at an earlier age. They get worn through trying to gain back condition, breed back...and do it again. An easy fleshing, moderate milk production cow is going to have more longevity and fertility, because she isn't constantly being stressed by trying to maintain condition. She's also going to have better QUALITY milk because her body has more to give to it.</p><p></p><p>I've posted this before, and I'll post it again here. My favorite cow that I keep every single heifer out of (I have multiple generations of her offspring), is 17 years old this year. She is 1150 lbs. She is the first to calve. The first to breed back. She gets fat just looking at grass. After calving she looks better than most cows do before. She weans a 600lb calf consistently. She has moderate milk production. She is incredibly forage efficient and smart, excellent disposition, and a great mother. So are all of her offspring. If I had concentrated on WW, YW, and Milk, I would have destroyed the attributes that make her such a good cow. </p><p></p><p>Below are some of my requirements for cows. They do not get a second chance if they fail any of the following:</p><p></p><p>-Must be able to maintain and gain condition on my crappy, cold drought stricken forage with very little supplementation (they never get grain a day in their life, and get cheap hay all winter, with some oat hay thrown in during extra cold weather and snowstorms)</p><p></p><p>-Must calve with zero assistance, zero issues, and have a healthy calf with plenty of vigor.</p><p></p><p>-Must breed back in the first cycle for cows, second cycle for heifers.</p><p></p><p>-Replacements must have good udders, and the right phenotype. </p><p></p><p>-Fly resistance, and disease resistant. For the most part, if I have to doctor a cow, with some exceptions, she is gone. But because I have culled for this, I can't remember the last time I've had to doctor anything.</p><p></p><p>Traits that are must have:</p><p></p><p>-Disposition</p><p>-Easy Fleshing</p><p>-Good maternal...She should be protective of her calf against predators and fit into the herd (they should take turns watching calves while others are grazing, protecting them, etc). They should be a herd...loner cows are gone. I should be able to go out and give shots/tag a newborn calf, walk out, pin it down, and have her look at me with concern but zero signs of aggression towards me. My 6 year old can push them through the working pens and load them out.</p><p>-Efficient</p><p>-Good Udders</p><p>-Longevity</p><p>-Hair/Coat</p><p>-Fly/Disease resistant</p><p>-Calve with zero assistance/issues</p><p>-Weight. Nothing above 1400, ever. Preferably closer to 1200.</p><p>-I'm sure I'm forgetting some</p><p></p><p>100% of my cows bred back this year. Ages from 1 year to 17 years old. I have a 99% plus fertility and breed back rate in my herd consistently every single year, as do other I know who use similar genetics and programs to mine.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jafruech, post: 1666389, member: 24025"] Sorry for the delay in follow-up to my previous post. Been a busy few days breaking ice lol Here's some thoughts I have on everything. 1. EPD's give you genotype. Yes you can derive some aspects of phenotype from looking at EPD's but you need to go and see them and really look through bulls in person to get the phenotype you want in addition to the genotype. There's plenty of bulls with near identical EPD's to mine that I wouldn't consider buying because their phenotype doesn't match what I need. 2. EPD's are absolutely useless unless you have a clearly defined goal for your herd. I love recordkeeping too...but records are useless unless you have clearly defined milestones to compare them to. 3. I highly recommend having 2 things in writing: - A business plan that includes marketing, profit goals, input goals, etc and how you plan on getting there. -A ranch/herd management plan that clearly states how you are managing your forage, rotation, plans for drought years, hay inputs, mineral program (you should do a forage analysis on your grass to find out where you stand so you aren't wasting money where you don't need it), vaccine program, etc. Then you need to have a clearly defined goals for your herd. I'm not talking chasing WW and YW. In a cow calf operation, your concentration first and foremost is on your cows and bulls. Yes you want good calves...but you don't get good calves by chasing WW and YW and ignoring the cows...especially if you are breeding your own replacements. More on that to follow. 4. I know a lot of people that were calving last week, and I just shook my head as they talked about frostbite and lost calves. It's more work, you have a lot more losses, and it is far harder on your cows. I live in a similar environment to you, except I have less rain and less forage. I would STRONGLY recommend moving your calving season to late April/early May. There are several huge benefits to your herd, profit, and your time. -You will be calving on better forage in a time your cows need it the most. Your cows will be in better condition going into calving, and they will gain back condition a lot quicker....which leads to better fertility and rebreeding rates...they can meet and exceed their nutritional requirements, which means the calves are getting more too...oh and the calves will be grazing better quality forage as they grow, and they will grow quicker...it's a domino effect of good things. -Your death/loss rate will be reduced drastically. You don't have to worry about frostbite, you don't have to worry about bringing them in, warming up hypothermic calves...or any of the other myriad of issues that calving in cold weather brings. -I calve in May and sell in December. I wean my calves for 45 days. They don't get creep or grain, but I do feed hay when I start weaning them in November. They typically average 600lbs at sale time. -The market is usually better in December because it isn't as flooded with supply. This year with COVID and the drought it was significantly higher in December. You can always sell on superior or something similar to get a larger audience, or look into selling private treaty. 5. Your cows need to fit your environment. One of the top metrics you should be tracking is fleshing and feed efficiency. A cow with a +15 milk EPD is more profitable in my environment than a cow with a +25. Why? Because a cow has to be able to meet her own nutritional needs and milk production before she starts gaining back condition...in higher rainfall areas of the US that's easy. In a lot of others, it isn't. That's one of many reasons cows fall apart at an earlier age. They get worn through trying to gain back condition, breed back...and do it again. An easy fleshing, moderate milk production cow is going to have more longevity and fertility, because she isn't constantly being stressed by trying to maintain condition. She's also going to have better QUALITY milk because her body has more to give to it. I've posted this before, and I'll post it again here. My favorite cow that I keep every single heifer out of (I have multiple generations of her offspring), is 17 years old this year. She is 1150 lbs. She is the first to calve. The first to breed back. She gets fat just looking at grass. After calving she looks better than most cows do before. She weans a 600lb calf consistently. She has moderate milk production. She is incredibly forage efficient and smart, excellent disposition, and a great mother. So are all of her offspring. If I had concentrated on WW, YW, and Milk, I would have destroyed the attributes that make her such a good cow. Below are some of my requirements for cows. They do not get a second chance if they fail any of the following: -Must be able to maintain and gain condition on my crappy, cold drought stricken forage with very little supplementation (they never get grain a day in their life, and get cheap hay all winter, with some oat hay thrown in during extra cold weather and snowstorms) -Must calve with zero assistance, zero issues, and have a healthy calf with plenty of vigor. -Must breed back in the first cycle for cows, second cycle for heifers. -Replacements must have good udders, and the right phenotype. -Fly resistance, and disease resistant. For the most part, if I have to doctor a cow, with some exceptions, she is gone. But because I have culled for this, I can't remember the last time I've had to doctor anything. Traits that are must have: -Disposition -Easy Fleshing -Good maternal...She should be protective of her calf against predators and fit into the herd (they should take turns watching calves while others are grazing, protecting them, etc). They should be a herd...loner cows are gone. I should be able to go out and give shots/tag a newborn calf, walk out, pin it down, and have her look at me with concern but zero signs of aggression towards me. My 6 year old can push them through the working pens and load them out. -Efficient -Good Udders -Longevity -Hair/Coat -Fly/Disease resistant -Calve with zero assistance/issues -Weight. Nothing above 1400, ever. Preferably closer to 1200. -I'm sure I'm forgetting some 100% of my cows bred back this year. Ages from 1 year to 17 years old. I have a 99% plus fertility and breed back rate in my herd consistently every single year, as do other I know who use similar genetics and programs to mine. [/QUOTE]
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