Non Ethanol gas update

[504RP]

Called to check the status on my welding machine that messed up due to water that was in the fuel i bought.

Learned that all the shop mechanics at the place working on my welder and other equipment there like zero turn mowers, weed eaters, chain saws etc..., have to go to school and become certified to do their warranty work.

I had already throughly drained the watered down fuel out of the welder and replaced it with 91 octane non ethanol premium fuel. Told the guy at the shop that.

He ask if the pump i bought it from was sit up for none ethanol fuel only or from a pump that you could also choose from ethanol or non ethanol fuel that pumps through the same hose.

The reason ask was that whenever you buy fuel that pumps both ethanol and none ethanol depending on which you choose will have whichever type of fuel left in the hose from what was pumped last. And that when you are wanting none ethanol fuel only. On pumps like that you have to pump the first 3 gallons of fuel into either your gas burning vhecial or a gas can to be sure you are getting only none ethanol fuel.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

504RP Thanks for the heads up

 

[504RP]

Learned too that you don't want to leave fuel in these small engines over 60 days. Say fuel that old will gum up engines like saws, weedeaters, 4 wheelers etc...., boat motors.

I have always unhooked the gas hose from my boat motors to let the engine burn the rest of the fuel left in the carburetor before pulling it out of the water at the boat ramps.

Told that mechanic about doing that and he said he shuts the fuel off at the carburetor of his generator on his travel trailer. Said that if the generator isn't sitting level when it is shut off. The float in the carburetor can stick open and let fuel into the crank case somehow and cause it to explode somehow ?

I never heard of something like that happening. That mechanic said he had one brought in that had done that and had busted the crank case on the engine because of it ?

So i am going to start shutting the fuel off on my generator and let it burn the fuel out of the bowl like have always done on my boat motors.

 

[4hfarms]

While back, I read that companies were supposed to reengineer and build new small engines to accommodate the ethanol.

Use stabilizer, and when it fails, mechanic in a bottle works great!

 

[Little Joe]

I run non-ethanol in all of my small engine stuff but the pumps are all set up with the ethanol options so probably getting some in the mix. I run a little sea foam through them periodically, that stuff works wonders.

 

[jltrent]

It would not surprise me if in the next couple years we are forced to use E-15 gas as a lot depends on Georgia outcome. If forced upon us it will be a disaster. The problem is all the rubber parts, (fuel lines, impulse lines, intake boots, oil seals, filters etc.), carb diaphragms, rubber tipped needles are not designed for Ethanol gas. To leave Ethanol gas in a few days limits the damage, but will still degrade parts that are not designed for it. To replace the damage it causes plus labor you have mountains of thrown away equipment that is probably harder on the environment that the benefit of E-10. Also Ethanol gas is very corrosive and will degrade metal parts over time.

To get back to the OP what I usually do if the pump is not exclusive Non-Ethanol I pump a few gallons in my vehicle before I fill up my portable tanks. In my autos I know it will not stay long.

 

[FungusProudKY31]

It would not surprise me if in the next couple years we are forced to use E-15 gas as a lot depends on Georgia outcome. If forced upon us it will be a disaster. The problem is all the rubber parts, (fuel lines, impulse lines, intake boots, oil seals, filters etc.), carb diaphragms, rubber tipped needles are not designed for Ethanol gas. To leave Ethanol gas in a few days limits the damage, but will still degrade parts that are not designed for it. To replace the damage it causes plus labor you have mountains of thrown away equipment that is probably harder on the environment that the benefit of E-10. Also Ethanol gas is very corrosive and will degrade metal parts over time.

To get back to the OP what I usually do if the pump is not exclusive Non-Ethanol I pump a few gallons in my vehicle before I fill up my portable tanks. In my autos I know it will not stay long.

You mean, on the GA deal, you expect to still have access to any gasoline when we are green, green, green? Surely you jest! I'll know that they are serious when the new Prez's limo is an electric moped. Oh, I forgot, what's good fort he goose is not suitable for the gander.

 

[Lucky_P]

At the local Southern States petroleum station, the non-ethanol pump has its own hose and spigot, separate from the reg/mid/premium ethanol blends on the same pump stations, so I presume there's no mixing of ethanol/nonethanol gasoline.

 

[504RP]

At the local Southern States petroleum station, the non-ethanol pump has its own hose and spigot, separate from the reg/mid/premium ethanol blends on the same pump stations, so I presume there's no mixing of ethanol/nonethanol gasoline.

Right ! If the non-ethanol pump and its hose and spigot is completely separate from the ethanol pumps. You should only be getting non ethanol fuel.

 

[504RP]

It would not surprise me if in the next couple years we are forced to use E-15 gas as a lot depends on Georgia outcome. If forced upon us it will be a disaster. The problem is all the rubber parts, (fuel lines, impulse lines, intake boots, oil seals, filters etc.), carb diaphragms, rubber tipped needles are not designed for Ethanol gas. To leave Ethanol gas in a few days limits the damage, but will still degrade parts that are not designed for it. To replace the damage it causes plus labor you have mountains of thrown away equipment that is probably harder on the environment that the benefit of E-10. Also Ethanol gas is very corrosive and will degrade metal parts over time.

To get back to the OP what I usually do if the pump is not exclusive Non-Ethanol I pump a few gallons in my vehicle before I fill up my portable tanks. In my autos I know it will not stay long.

Ethanol fuel does all of thoes things you mentioned plus it makes water mix with fuel or what they call emusify probably spelt emusify wrong but its means to mix.

And ethanol gas burns hotter than non-ethanol gas. For exaple E-10 ethanol fuel is 10 % ethanol fuel, E-15 ethanol is 15 % ethanol.

So when you use ethanol fuel in small engines like chain saws, weed eaters, lawn mowers, 4 wheelers etc..., not only does it do all the things jltrent has mentioned but because the ethanol burns hotter and if it had water in it from where you got it. The extra heat can burn your valves, rings, pistons etc prematurely. And it will burn the water that when mixed with ethanol is corrosive.

Thats why you should use the type of fuel the owner's manual says to use. A engine designed to burn E-10 will burn E-15 but because of the extra heat of the E-15 it is damaging the rings, pistons etc....., probably no noticeable damage immediately will show up. But what is happening is your shortening the.life of that engine. Had one guy tell me that was the cause of these check engine lights that come on and you can't find anything wrong. But if you run the fuel the owner's manual calls for. That check engine light will go away.

But when you run this hotter burning, water mixing ethanol fuel in these small engines designed for non ethanol fuel. Your really shortening the life of thoes engines.

 

[504RP]

I run non-ethanol in all of my small engine stuff but the pumps are all set up with the ethanol options so probably getting some in the mix. I run a little sea foam through them periodically, that stuff works wonders.

I have been doing the same thing. I have a 2 or 2 1/2 gallon jug that i fill up with what i was thinking non ethanol fuel.

I guess depending on what was pumped through that hoes last before i used it. Might have been non ethanol, might have been ethanol ? Thats what i have been using in my small engine's.

Not much telling how much ethanol/water mix i have run through my small engine's and how much it has shortened the life of thoes engines because of it.

But i am going to try and keep that from happening from now on.

Non-ethanol fuel has a clear blue green color. Ethanol fuel has a red or rust looking color. So that is one way of telling the difference.

If you have water in non ethanol it will seperate and settle to the bottom of its container. Water in ethanol fuel i am guessing will if you let it sit long enough.

You can find you tube videos showing all of this. Including these fuel treatments like sea foam etc...., i was surprised as what little good some of these additives do. Like the well talked about sea foam.

 

[Atimm693]

Learned too that you don't want to leave fuel in these small engines over 60 days. Say fuel that old will gum up engines like saws, weedeaters, 4 wheelers etc...., boat motors.

I have always unhooked the gas hose from my boat motors to let the engine burn the rest of the fuel left in the carburetor before pulling it out of the water at the boat ramps.

Told that mechanic about doing that and he said he shuts the fuel off at the carburetor of his generator on his travel trailer. Said that if the generator isn't sitting level when it is shut off. The float in the carburetor can stick open and let fuel into the crank case somehow and cause it to explode somehow ?

I never heard of something like that happening. That mechanic said he had one brought in that had done that and had busted the crank case on the engine because of it ?

So i am going to start shutting the fuel off on my generator and let it burn the fuel out of the bowl like have always done on my boat motors.

Floats can stick either way, but if it sticks closed, you will get no gas into the carb. If it sticks open the carb will overflow, and depending on location and design of the carburetor may flood the engine. Those old Briggs flatheads with the bowl type carb were terrible about it, anything with the carb up high.

If I have one that's sticking sometimes a few whacks with a screwdriver handle will unstick it.

Hondas and their chinese copies that are so popular now have the carb lower than the intake, it is next to impossible for those to flood the engine. It'll just run out of the overflow hose and on the ground.

And ethanol gas burns hotter than non-ethanol gas. For exaple E-10 ethanol fuel is 10 % ethanol fuel, E-15 ethanol is 15 % ethanol.

So when you use ethanol fuel in small engines like chain saws, weed eaters, lawn mowers, 4 wheelers etc..., not only does it do all the things jltrent has mentioned but because the ethanol burns hotter and if it had water in it from where you got it. The extra heat can burn your valves, rings, pistons etc prematurely. And it will burn the water that when mixed with ethanol is corrosive.

Thats why you should use the type of fuel the owner's manual says to use. A engine designed to burn E-10 will burn E-15 but because of the extra heat of the E-15 it is damaging the rings, pistons etc....., probably no noticeable damage immediately will show up. But what is happening is your shortening the.life of that engine. Had one guy tell me that was the cause of these check engine lights that come on and you can't find anything wrong. But if you run the fuel the owner's manual calls for. That check engine light will go away.

But when you run this hotter burning, water mixing ethanol fuel in these small engines designed for non ethanol fuel. Your really shortening the life of thoes engines.

Ethanol actually burns cooler and cleaner than gasoline. If a carburetor is not jetted for ethanol, it will run super lean and hot. Same goes if you put E85 in a car that is not set up for it.

The problem is that it takes more of it to do the same amount of work as gas. That's why flex fuel vehicles get 15-25% less fuel economy on E85. The fuel system needs to compensate or it will run lean.

The bigger problem I see is that the EPA has meddled so much with these small engines, they are set too lean right from the factory. It has little do with ethanol, it is just a scapegoat. Anything made within the last 15 years is designed to run on it.

If water gets in it, or if it sits unused for years, you are going to have problems, ethanol or not.

I bought my mower new in 2006. I park it in the shed with ethanol gas every winter, no treatment, every year. I've never had the carb apart, runs just like the day I got it. Same with everything else that I have.

I have never seen an E85 pump that didn't have separate hoses, but I haven't seen all that many, there's only a few in my area.

 

[C-Ranch]

A couple years ago, after fighting small engine problems, I bought a used 250 gallon fuel tank and fill it up once a year (Non- Ethanol) when I fill my diesel tanks. I use it in all my small engines (wheel lines, side x side, lawn mowers, generators, etc.) and have had zero problems since. As someone else suggested I turn off the fuel and run the motor till it dies when storing for the winter.