Menu
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New profile posts
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Forums
Cattle Boards
Beginners Board
New Pasture Lease
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Help Support CattleToday:
Message
<blockquote data-quote="RDFF" data-source="post: 1652919" data-attributes="member: 39018"><p>Klm3030,</p><p></p><p>To help make my point, let's compare two potential properties.</p><p></p><p>Here's a picture of "some pasture"... let's assume it's got brand new HT electric perimeter fencing powered by a high joule AC fencer, plus 1 wire subdivision fencing in 10 acre paddocks. It's got distributed pressurized, frost free water on it, and a good corral system and loading facility in place. It's high in fertility converted cropland, filled with high yielding, highly diverse, high quality perennial forages. This pasture has deep black loam soils with very little to no sand, underlayed with deep silty clay loam, and on average receives about 40" of rain typically well dispersed throughout the growing season, and none of it is wetlands or subject to flooding. All of the permanent infrastructure maintenance and upkeep that is a part of the property (fencing, water system, corrals, roadways, pasture reseeding, etc.) will be paid for and maintained by the pasture owner.</p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1097[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p>And here's another "pasture", let's just assume that this one is similar in size, has semi-acceptable but 40+ year old badly rusted and heavily patched barbed wire fence with all wooden posts, no subdivision fencing, one pond with no fence around it that typically dries up in late July, unless it's a wet year. Any water beyond this will have to be hauled in. The property receives about 20" of rainfall per year through the growing season, soils are rocky sandy loam, the fertility is poor, there is no corral system or load out facilities. Any and all "property maintenance" and fencing, etc., is up to the "renter" to take care of, as it's owned by an "absentee landowner" that lives in a neighboring state about 200 miles away, but the renter is generally expected to "improve" the property (language that's stated in conversation, but never spelled out in writing). However, any fencing, watering systems, fertility amendments, or "seeding" that the renter might choose to do that's anchored into or applied to the soil will be done fully at his expense but is intended to "remain with the property" (he can't take any fence, corrals or watering systems anchored into the soil in any way that he might put in back out unless they're "portable/temporary" systems, and there will be no compensation/rent adjustment for fertility or seeding improvements, brush clearing, mowing or herbicide application).</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1099[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Which of these two properties would you choose for YOUR cattle to graze on, if the "price per acre" you could get them for was relatively similar for both? There's just no way that these two properties are "comparable" for "value" to the cattle owner renter, and the respective rents will have to reflect that. Often, this is the scenario that is faced by the pasture renter however... "pasture is pasture" is how the landowner views it, and so "the county average" or slightly above it ought to apply. You have to keep in mind that in most cases, "pasture ground" is relegated to the marginal ground that "isn't suitable" for "cropping". And therefore, typically it is HIGHLY variable even within every section, let alone across a whole county or region..... it'll generally be of "poor quality and condition".... i.e.: areas that are too wet, too dry, too rocky, too shallow, sandy, heavily wooded, overgrown with brush... ground that's just hard to make a living out of. Hard enough that it becomes difficult to justify spending any money on it, even the "minimal cost" of putting a fence around it to hold in livestock. That doesn't change just because somebody else is owning the cattle and they're hard up to find some space to run them on.</p><p></p><p>Every property "is what it is" at the time, and that can't be overlooked. It is what it is... right now, when your wanting to rent it. Period. Unless you now, as the property owner, are willing to "take the property from the second example" and INVEST what it takes in it to turn it into "the property from the first example", you can't expect to be able to rent it for anything even remotely close to the same price per acre. Past history is just that... past history. It's yours now, and you inherited it in the condition it's in right now, not the condition it may or may not have been in 20 some years ago. You can be frustrated with what the renter in the past may have or may not have done with it... but that won't change the facts about "what it is" today. You can drop him cold, and exchange him for another renter, and that's your prerogative. Or, you can honor the commitment you made to your aunt from whom you inherited this property, and talk with the renter and <strong>work WITH him</strong> as though he's your PARTNER to help improve the property from this point forward, now that it's in YOUR power to be able to do that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RDFF, post: 1652919, member: 39018"] Klm3030, To help make my point, let's compare two potential properties. Here's a picture of "some pasture"... let's assume it's got brand new HT electric perimeter fencing powered by a high joule AC fencer, plus 1 wire subdivision fencing in 10 acre paddocks. It's got distributed pressurized, frost free water on it, and a good corral system and loading facility in place. It's high in fertility converted cropland, filled with high yielding, highly diverse, high quality perennial forages. This pasture has deep black loam soils with very little to no sand, underlayed with deep silty clay loam, and on average receives about 40" of rain typically well dispersed throughout the growing season, and none of it is wetlands or subject to flooding. All of the permanent infrastructure maintenance and upkeep that is a part of the property (fencing, water system, corrals, roadways, pasture reseeding, etc.) will be paid for and maintained by the pasture owner. [ATTACH type="full" alt="1607251937696.png"]1097[/ATTACH] And here's another "pasture", let's just assume that this one is similar in size, has semi-acceptable but 40+ year old badly rusted and heavily patched barbed wire fence with all wooden posts, no subdivision fencing, one pond with no fence around it that typically dries up in late July, unless it's a wet year. Any water beyond this will have to be hauled in. The property receives about 20" of rainfall per year through the growing season, soils are rocky sandy loam, the fertility is poor, there is no corral system or load out facilities. Any and all "property maintenance" and fencing, etc., is up to the "renter" to take care of, as it's owned by an "absentee landowner" that lives in a neighboring state about 200 miles away, but the renter is generally expected to "improve" the property (language that's stated in conversation, but never spelled out in writing). However, any fencing, watering systems, fertility amendments, or "seeding" that the renter might choose to do that's anchored into or applied to the soil will be done fully at his expense but is intended to "remain with the property" (he can't take any fence, corrals or watering systems anchored into the soil in any way that he might put in back out unless they're "portable/temporary" systems, and there will be no compensation/rent adjustment for fertility or seeding improvements, brush clearing, mowing or herbicide application). [ATTACH type="full" alt="1607254758964.png"]1099[/ATTACH] Which of these two properties would you choose for YOUR cattle to graze on, if the "price per acre" you could get them for was relatively similar for both? There's just no way that these two properties are "comparable" for "value" to the cattle owner renter, and the respective rents will have to reflect that. Often, this is the scenario that is faced by the pasture renter however... "pasture is pasture" is how the landowner views it, and so "the county average" or slightly above it ought to apply. You have to keep in mind that in most cases, "pasture ground" is relegated to the marginal ground that "isn't suitable" for "cropping". And therefore, typically it is HIGHLY variable even within every section, let alone across a whole county or region..... it'll generally be of "poor quality and condition".... i.e.: areas that are too wet, too dry, too rocky, too shallow, sandy, heavily wooded, overgrown with brush... ground that's just hard to make a living out of. Hard enough that it becomes difficult to justify spending any money on it, even the "minimal cost" of putting a fence around it to hold in livestock. That doesn't change just because somebody else is owning the cattle and they're hard up to find some space to run them on. Every property "is what it is" at the time, and that can't be overlooked. It is what it is... right now, when your wanting to rent it. Period. Unless you now, as the property owner, are willing to "take the property from the second example" and INVEST what it takes in it to turn it into "the property from the first example", you can't expect to be able to rent it for anything even remotely close to the same price per acre. Past history is just that... past history. It's yours now, and you inherited it in the condition it's in right now, not the condition it may or may not have been in 20 some years ago. You can be frustrated with what the renter in the past may have or may not have done with it... but that won't change the facts about "what it is" today. You can drop him cold, and exchange him for another renter, and that's your prerogative. Or, you can honor the commitment you made to your aunt from whom you inherited this property, and talk with the renter and [B]work WITH him[/B] as though he's your PARTNER to help improve the property from this point forward, now that it's in YOUR power to be able to do that. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Cattle Boards
Beginners Board
New Pasture Lease
Top