Need some help here...

[IluvABbeef]

I've posted something similar to this a while ago, but I want to bring it up again to get some opinions.

Okay, first things first.

1)What: I'm planning on starting my own commercial cow-calf operation. Note: COMMERCIAL. I want good quality cows (not average, mind you) with mothering ability, good calving ease (since I won;t be around 24/7 to watch or be on hand for troubles), milking ability, longetivity, Docility (biggy for me) etc.

2)Where: most likely at the home farm, since land prices in AB these days are atrocious, and theres already fences and handling facilities in place.

3)When: I'm guessing in another 5 years, at the most...

4)Why: Because backgrounding calves is so boring! I never get the pleasure and satisfaction of making the kind of herd that I want, seeing my own calves hit the ground and grow up to be mommas and the like...

5)Who: Toughy. Me, I'm the one behind this.

Now, with that aside (and feel free to ask me any questions) I want to start with a BREED. Not a crossbred cow like a black baldy, but like Herefords, or Angus or Red Angus, things like that. I'm looking for a breed that I won't have MANY problems with, starting out. I've been looking into Herefords, but I also like those red angus and black angus (from studying the growth and adaptability of the feeder steers from the past number of years), though i've seen how some Angus mommas can be a real pain in the neck when trying to separate their calf to vaccinate and tag. I'm also undecisive because every year we get new, different-coloured calves, and I'm not so much on the colour thing or breed, more so about them being docile and not so half-a$$ crazy where you can only form a flight zone of 50 feet with them, and get any closer and they're high-tailin' it for the other end of the pasture.

Now, I like the baldies, BUT, I want to start with a breed that I can grow on and THEN branch out from there with the crossbreeding thing...maybe purchase a few black baldies after a few years of experience with this...I'm also looking for a breed that will be most likely to be profitable 5 or 6 years from now.

So now I need some help deciding which is best for ME. Anything, any opinions, info, two cents, whatever, I would appreciate from anyone.

THANKS in advance.

 

[ROB]

IluvABbeef-
i started out commercial, but i also spent a little extra for a couple of registered cows that i liked the looks of. this gave me the flexibility of running a commercial herd, but at the same time, adding replacements out of the registered cows. i now have the opportunity to switch to a registered herd and sell registered replacement females and bulls, or i can choose not to register calves and sell commercial. i like to keep my options open. good luck.

ROB

 

[Jim62]

Black angus mommas would be good. I've been dealing with them for 25 years, and have never had a problem with attitude, even when they have new calves. However, I'd definitely go with something other than angus bulls. I used them for many years with not too much problem, but the last 2 I had pretty much tore up every gate, pen, and fence on the place. Don't know what I will get now. And, I am open to all suggestions and/or opinions.

 

[rockridgecattle]

We are predominatley black angus. Been building from charlois. If i had to do it again i would go red angus or herford cross which we are adding in. The red can go anywhere. The crosses are endless.
Having said that, my husband loves the black baldies for there hardiness. He says when he feeds, they go to the bale and stay and clean up. The others move around looking for the best hay. The Blk Angus/herford make a nice full growing cross. The red can go charlois, herford, just about anywhere.
We have found the angus cross calves seem to grow better that the straight angus. Dunno why?
We work quietly with the cows so they are on the quiet side and cull the nutters. We've done the buy bred heifers and grow our own. Prefer to grow our own.
What about picking out some nice ones from the feed lot to start. They are young enough to get use to you. Being as expereinced as you are in the feed lot, can you tell alot from them as they grow out?

 

[Brandonm2]

Buy straight Hereford cows and come back with Angus on them. In a perfect world, you would buy your straight Hereford replacements every year from a trusted seedstock guy and raise your own F1 baldy heifers and market all the F2s (F1s x a Char, Sim, or terminal Angus...depending on what market grid the calves ultimately end up on).

 

[Frankie]

Consider Angus cows. They have been crossed with just about every breed successfully. They milk, they mother, they're fertile. I think every breed has some nut cases. You just cull them and go on.

 

[dun]

Gelbvieh and or Red Angus

 

[IluvABbeef]

Rockridge, I've been teaching myself how to tell apart the bad-doers (the more high-maintenance ones) from the good ones, those that can efficiently convert forage into muscle (all that is pretty obvious), and lately been putting more effort in looking at conformation +/-, via feet problems, head, etc. (And this is with steers, mind) I'm not so much on the udders, but I do that on here

TNMBP, I ain't too familiar with Salers, since I've never seen a feeder calf on the farm that resembles a saler, I'm not too informed on how well they'll do up here. Same with Gelb's, though I've heard much positive feedback on here about Gelb and GelbX cattle.

Thanks again for suggestions...please keep them coming.

 

[dun]

One thing that has to be taken into consideration is the available genepool. If Gelbviehs are scarce look to Simmenthal, if you want to stick with british look at Shorthorn. Canada still has herds that haven;t fallen into the crossbreeding for show that has screwed up most of the Shorthorn genetics in the US. But it would have to be a breed that has the depth of genepool and also demand in whatever marketing method you choose.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Go with Murray Grey. They have plenty in Canada and in Ohio. ;-)

 

[IluvABbeef]

One thing that has to be taken into consideration is the available genepool. If Gelbviehs are scarce look to Simmenthal, if you want to stick with british look at Shorthorn. Canada still has herds that haven;t fallen into the crossbreeding for show that has screwed up most of the Shorthorn genetics in the US. But it would have to be a breed that has the depth of genepool and also demand in whatever marketing method you choose.

I never really have given this much of a thought, thanks for bringing it up. But for the part I bolded, how does that work out?? Was it from the selection of a single trait that messed up the Shortie genetics?

Go with Murray Grey. They have plenty in Canada and in Ohio.

I was wondering when you were gonna jump in. ;-)

 

[Brandonm2]

I never really have given this much of a thought, thanks for bringing it up. But for the part I bolded, how does that work out?? Was it from the selection of a single trait that messed up the Shortie genetics?

No they just started completely ignoring the commercial cow/calf segment of the business. Their whole focus became on winning ribbons at shows (Hereford has had problems with this too). Mature cow weights got too high, bulls got a little too feminine, birth weights got too heavy, etc. These are typical Shorthorns and are better than the cattle of ten years ago:

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 70&lang=EN

Notice the comments.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 06&lang=EN

http://cattlevisions.com/Shorthorn/Teddy%20Bear.php

 

[IluvABbeef]

I never really have given this much of a thought, thanks for bringing it up. But for the part I bolded, how does that work out?? Was it from the selection of a single trait that messed up the Shortie genetics?

No they just started completely ignoring the commercial cow/calf segment of the business. Their whole focus became on winning ribbons at shows (Hereford has had problems with this too). Mature cow weights got too high, bulls got a little too feminine, birth weights got too heavy, etc. These are typical Shorthorns and are better than the cattle of ten years ago:

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 70&lang=EN

Notice the comments.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 06&lang=EN

http://cattlevisions.com/Shorthorn/Teddy%20Bear.php

:shock: :shock: WOW. I'm very surprised by the comment on the second one: "Works well on hard-made, big-framed Chi cross cows." He already has a negative calving ease EPD, a large BW EPD, and they reccomend THAT??? That is....that.....I really don't know what to say...and the last one, only comments about muscle and hair. Something I don't expect coming from Shortie breeders, especially from where I'm from. Thanks for the heads-up Brandonm2...

 

[dun]

:shock: :shock: WOW. I'm very surprised by the comment on the second one: "Works well on hard-made, big-framed Chi cross cows." He already has a negative calving ease EPD, a large BW EPD, and they reccomend THAT??? That is....that.....I really don't know what to say...and the last one, only comments about muscle and hair. Something I don't expect coming from Shortie breeders, especially from where I'm from. Thanks for the heads-up Brandonm2...

The hair thing is part of the show mentality. Using them on Chi cows is just more of the same.

 

[Jogeephus]

What works for me is to talk to the buyers and get to know them. Find out what they want and what they are looking for. I also set a size goal that I want my mommas to be. I prefer a mature weight of around 1000 pounds. Then, if I need heifers, I shop for them at stocker operations. I like the hereford breed but they are rare in my area. Blacks are plentiful. With supply and demand, I can buy up the blacks much cheaper hence reducing my inititial cost.

When shopping for replacements, I have also formed a good relationship with a stocker operation that keeps between 600-900 head. I pay a "bird dog fee" to the fella that feeds them twice a day. He sees them when they come in and he knows which ones are good and growthy and which ones aren't. He compiles a list for me and from there I do my selecting in the field without any pressures or time limits. In doing this, I have limited the number of duds I get and tend to pick out some pretty good replacements for $50 over market. Also, if I look real close I can also pick up some high dollar purebred animals that had to be sold due to lack of buyers.

Once I pick my lot, I keep performance records on them and cull any that don't meet my standards.

In summary, I try to keep my inititial costs low. I use bulls with the desired frame and size to finish my end product which I am instructed by the buyer that he wants.

On temperament, with the exception of brangus, I think it is mostly the way you handle them as to whether or not they are mean or agressive. Most are docile but only two are pettable.

Good luck.

 

[KNERSIE]

Buy straight Hereford cows and come back with Angus on them. In a perfect world, you would buy your straight Hereford replacements every year from a trusted seedstock guy and raise your own F1 baldy heifers and market all the F2s (F1s x a Char, Sim, or terminal Angus...depending on what market grid the calves ultimately end up on).

I agree on that one, you can build a herd of baldies with time using angus bulls to suit your environment on the hereford cows.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Well, I sure got a lot of interesting answers, and a lot to think about. Even though I still got another few years to go before all this physically takes place, it's still always good to do some askin' around.

THanks again a bunch everyone, appreciate it.