Need Advice

[chris87]

I wanna start by saying I've been checking this forum out for a long time, but have just been looking around. So I decided to join this morning.

I'm in college and have about 20 cow/calf pairs of mostly Angus and Brangus type cattle with a 7 year old Angus bull. Well my dad has been row crop farming for almost 25 years, but has never had cattle or really been around cattle up until the last two years and now he has a little bit of interest in them. We had a good soybean crop this year and he said he wants to buy about 30 cows and see how it works out. So we want to have 50 cows between us. We will be in the commercial business. My cows are already an all black herd so I will probably get him to buy some Angus type cattle also to keep it the same with my cattle. We don't want to rock the world or anything, just want to have fun with them and maybe start building into something bigger when I get out of college in a couple of years.

So what I need advice on is what type of bull we need to use and whether or not we should have one or two bulls.

A little insight to what our weather situation is and the ideas I have thrown around:

I would like to go ahead and cull the current bull this year and start fresh. He's a good bull, but kind of has an attitude problem.

We want to have our calves in the Jan-March months.

We live in Mississippi.

I've thought about Hereford, Angus, Gelbvieh, and Charolais bulls and if we were to buy two bulls maybe going with two different breeds.


Well this is as far as we have gotten into it and I am now looking for advice. I'm not predjudice against any breed and open to pretty much anything right now.

 

[chris87]

I'm not farmiliar with Salers and wouldn't even know where to look for one.

I like the growth and milking ability of Gelbvieh and it would be relatively easy to buy one since the guy that checks our cotton for bugs is also in the Gelbvieh business.

I'm friends with a Charolais producer and help him out if he needs it when he is weaning calves and working his cows. He doesn't mind helping me out and giving advice. My cousin actually shows with his son. I also like the smokes and their ability to put on alot of weight. I had a couple of Charolais cows with smokes this past season and really liked them, but I sold those and got to the all black herd.

So I have access to good Gelbvieh and Charolais bulls, but I dont have clue where I could find a Salers.

 

[sedrick_hall]

I wanna start by saying I've been checking this forum out for a long time, but have just been looking around. So I decided to join this morning.

I'm in college and have about 20 cow/calf pairs of mostly Angus and Brangus type cattle with a 7 year old Angus bull. Well my dad has been row crop farming for almost 25 years, but has never had cattle or really been around cattle up until the last two years and now he has a little bit of interest in them. We had a good soybean crop this year and he said he wants to buy about 30 cows and see how it works out. So we want to have 50 cows between us. We will be in the commercial business. My cows are already an all black herd so I will probably get him to buy some Angus type cattle also to keep it the same with my cattle. We don't want to rock the world or anything, just want to have fun with them and maybe start building into something bigger when I get out of college in a couple of years.

So what I need advice on is what type of bull we need to use and whether or not we should have one or two bulls.

A little insight to what our weather situation is and the ideas I have thrown around:

I would like to go ahead and cull the current bull this year and start fresh. He's a good bull, but kind of has an attitude problem.

We want to have our calves in the Jan-March months.

We live in Mississippi.

I've thought about Hereford, Angus, Gelbvieh, and Charolais bulls and if we were to buy two bulls maybe going with two different breeds.


Well this is as far as we have gotten into it and I am now looking for advice. I'm not predjudice against any breed and open to pretty much anything right now.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would sell the current bull. If he has an attitude problem he should have been gone yesterday. I would also buy more Angus/Brangus type cows and I would definitely go with a Hereford bull. You will get some nice baldies with that combination.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

chris87-

You are thinking right in your selection choices for starting a herd. Here are a couple of bits of advice in the "Beginning the RIGHT Way" catagory.

Decide on the breed of cattle for your particular circumstances based on the QUALITY of the foundation cow herd you begin with! I can't stress this aspect of your beginning RIGHT enough!! If you are satisfied with your Angus/Brangus cow herd at the present time, then you have a good start. If you have the least question in your mind about the quality of your COWS as Foundation stock - sell them and use the money to buy BETTER QUALITY cows, even it you don't end up with the same NUMBER of cows in your herd. It is much better to have eight to twelve good, high quality Foundation Cows that you are pleased with and who have good temperment and phenotype and EPD's, than 20 cow/calf pairs just because there are 20 of them! If you are not happy with the bull you HAVE BEEN USING (is he the SIRE of the calves that you have now?) get rid of him IMMEDIATELY - which means TOMORROW MORNING!

If your bull ". . . has an attitude", the chances are that a high percentage of his calves will also have an attitude, and you certainly DON'T want that in your future cow herd. Sell those calves also, and look for pregnant, proven cows with nursing calves at side.

You say you live in Mississippi. Angus/Brangus will do well there. But some Brangus have "Attitudes" also, so you should be very cautious when selecting your Foundation stock! Currently (right now) there is an article on the CattleToday front page titled "Tough Steaks Begin at the Ranch", and I recommend that you and your Dad copy it and read it eight or ten times, and post it on the refrigerator door and get it down and read it about once a week! If you follow that advice, it will save you $ MONEY $ and time, and disappointment in the future.

And another thing before I go to bed! Just because a friend who checks your cotton for bugs has cattle - don't 'cave-in' and "do a friend a favor" and buy his cattle. Beginning a new Foundation Herd puts you in a position of having NO friends. Learn and decide what you want, and get the BEST you can get, not just because a friend 'helps' you. I know that sounds quite tough and obstinate and unfriendly, but it is your money - BIG money, and you want to start RIGHT, and have no regrets later, and maybe lose a 'friend' in the process!

I also suggest that you carefully consider the Gelpvieh breed, along with High quality Angus, if you are thinking Angus bulls. Another suggestion would be to use Artificial Insemination for your Angus Breeding Bull to start. THAT will allow you to get into the breeding business with exemplary cattle, without having to spend extreme dollars to buy an unproven bull. By using an extremely high quality Angus bull, for instance, you can have a greater chance of acquiring EXCELLENT Replacement heifers and "leap-frogging" ahead about 10 or 12 YEARS in your breeding program.

Don't think negatively, and say "We are 'just' going to be Commercial Breeders." That is all the more reason that you want to use the highest quality stock that you can get, or you are wasting your time! Most good Commercial breeders use the best Registered bull that they can afford, or even better than they "THINK" they can afford.

If you are thinking 50 cows, try this thought in your planning: Make it 40 VERY GOOD COWS, and ONE VERY GOOD BULL, instead of two. Pay as much for one good bull as you would for two - just - OK bulls! One mature bull can service 40 cows easily, and if you use AI you don't need a bull for a couple of years to FEED and care for him! Six years down the line, you will have a herd to be proud of, instead of regreting that you did not go "top drawer" to begin with! I have seen this happen several times, and I know whereof I speak! Buying seedstock is no time to be cheap. If you are hesitant about selection techniques to use, ASK someone who knows about your chosen breed. There are a lot of sales right now, and you can acquire some good cattle for reasonable money - but just be sure that you know what you are getting.

Like begets like - good or bad. And your bull is MORE than just one half of your herd! A POOR bull is your entire herd for years and years!

Whatever breed you decide to use, it is critical that you start right the first time. Don't jump before you think it all out in advance.

I wish you the very best in your planning and selecting!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Jovid]

Sounds to me you are looking for a Red Poll bull. Very docile, easy calving, rapid calf gain and great milkers.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

chris87-
If you will look on the CattleToday front page articles index today, you will see an article titled "Mississippi State Hires New Beef Specialist." Read that, and think about getting in touch with him and have him help you with your decision regarding your herd. That is what he has been hired to do, and I am sure that you can get some great ideas from him.

DOC HARRIS