Nature Finds a Way - Lucky_P Check this

[inyati13]

Purchased this heifer from Rocking_P Dec 2012. Born 10/2011. Before I took possession, she was in a pasture with young bulls that would be marketed in the spring of 2013. Because she could not be papered, I got her at a discount. Being a non-breeder, that is not a problem for me. I put her in the Bull Pen, woven wire fence, electric and not adjoining any other landowners. She was with 3 other heifers that i did not want my bull breeding w/o my consent. Here they are in the bull pen in January 2013:

I vaccinated this heifer with Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 L5 on Dec 28, 2012. Before turning her out to pasture with a bull, she was given a second vaccination of Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 L5. I released her to pasture with the bull in April 2013. Oddly, I never saw any activity associated with being in heat. She is the only cow or heifer I have that I did not record some type of activity suggestive of being in heat. I have a question mark by her name (Brownie) in my record book. I assumed the bull bred her at night sometime in April. In the last few days, I have noted that her bag is developing. I thought, that is odd! But this morning I was real close and I saw clear mucus on her rear. I looked at her vulva. It looked swollen and loose. I looked again at her udder. OMG, she is going to calve. How could this be??? My mind was working through the possibilities. OK, she looks like she could have a calf in the next week. Back tracking, that puts conception at about the middle of December 2012. That is a week before I took delivery. I know she was not in contact with my bull until April 2013. Unless he got her through the fence and didn't mind the electric fence shock while he did it. No, the only possibility was that she came to me bred. I called Keith of Rocking_P. I explained all of the above. She infact was in a group of their young bulls (about 20 or 30). She was relegated at that status because she was not papered. She was going to the Stockyards. In fact she was also given Lut to clear out any pregnacy before she was delivered. So this sweet young girl survived a shot of lut and two shots of Bovi-Shield Gold 5 L5 MLV and still held her baby. Life has a way of hanging on. Lucky_P, you and I have discussed the abortion properties of Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 many times. And I ask Keith if she had been previously exposed to MLV and they do not use the MLV for that reason. Thus, this heifer was vaccinated while pregnant with the FP MLV which is suppose to be a high risk proposition.
She looks like she will calve in the next week, here are pics from this morning:

Here she is in May a month after being with the Bull;

 

[Lucky_P]

lol, Ron.
One of the most common reasons for heifers not coming into heat is...because they're pregnant - and often by their uncastrated bull contemporaries.

They won't all abort, if vaccinated with a MLV product, but it's enough of a concern that we don't recommend it.
I've never worked up an abortion case that was conclusively tied into vaccination with MLV products, but there's certainly plenty of historical evidence to suggest that it's a possibility, and can happen.
That said, most evidence suggests that vaccination of calves/non-pregnant animals with today's MLV products is of minimal to no danger to pregnant animals in the herd - there's just not much, if any, danger of viral shedding. But I wouldn't advise vaccinating naive pregnant animals with a MLV, and still squinch up a bit at the idea of vaccinating pregnant cows, even if they have been through the recommended series previously - though maybe that hesitance is unfounded.

Just may have been early enough in the course of the pregnancy of your heifer that no damage was done. But... with the April mlv vaccine, I have to wonder about the possibility of in utero infection of the fetus, and causing it to be a PI calf - you'd be into that 80-110(some stretch it to 140) day danger period. I'd probably recommend discussing this with your veterinarian - you might be well advised to take an ear notch or blood sample for BVD-PI testing of that calf whenever it gets here...

 

[Putangitangi]

I was part of a discussion this week where the window for PIs during gestation was argued to be strictly within a certain period. When I had a scare last year (trespassing unknown-status animal amongst my naive pregnant heifers) I found some references to PIs occuring in animals well past the usually considered danger period. My vet's advice was 'don't bet on it!'

 

[dun]

Her name doesn;t havppen to be Mary is it?

 

[inyati13]

lol, Ron.
One of the most common reasons for heifers not coming into heat is...because they're pregnant - and often by their uncastrated bull contemporaries.

They won't all abort, if vaccinated with a MLV product, but it's enough of a concern that we don't recommend it.
I've never worked up an abortion case that was conclusively tied into vaccination with MLV products, but there's certainly plenty of historical evidence to suggest that it's a possibility, and can happen.
That said, most evidence suggests that vaccination of calves/non-pregnant animals with today's MLV products is of minimal to no danger to pregnant animals in the herd - there's just not much, if any, danger of viral shedding. But I wouldn't advise vaccinating naive pregnant animals with a MLV, and still squinch up a bit at the idea of vaccinating pregnant cows, even if they have been through the recommended series previously - though maybe that hesitance is unfounded.

Just may have been early enough in the course of the pregnancy of your heifer that no damage was done. But... with the April mlv vaccine, I have to wonder about the possibility of in utero infection of the fetus, and causing it to be a PI calf - you'd be into that 80-110(some stretch it to 140) day danger period. I'd probably recommend discussing this with your veterinarian - you might be well advised to take an ear notch or blood sample for BVD-PI testing of that calf whenever it gets here...

I will give the vet a call and see what he thinks. But so I understand this, if this is a PI calf will it be exposing other cattle in my herd. All the heifers have been vaccinated prior to breeding with MLV but not some of the cows because there was no opportunity due to their being pregnant etc.

BTW, what about the lutylase. Keith told me he used lut to clear her out but did not use an accompaning drug with the lut which may account for why it did not abort the embryo. I think it was something like methazodine not sure. He also said she may have hit the window when it was too early for lut to abort.

 

[inyati13]

Her name doesn;t havppen to be Mary is it?

parthenogenesis anyone? It has happened but the offspring are always haploid since they did not receive the paternal side of the chromosomes. Her name is Brownie.

 

[Lucky_P]

Yes, if it's a PI calf (the non-cytopathic vaccine strains can potentially cause that condition), it could endanger the rest of the herd - euthanasia would be in order.

Parthenogenesis? Not wanting to get into a religious argument, but the 'highest' order I've seen it scientifically documented in is turkeys.

 

[inyati13]

Yes, if it's a PI calf (the non-cytopathic vaccine strains can potentially cause that condition), it could endanger the rest of the herd - euthanasia would be in order.

Parthenogenesis? Not wanting to get into a religious argument, but the 'highest' order I've seen it scientifically documented in is turkeys.

But the ones that have been vaccinated should be protected? How quickly will I get the results and this means when she has the calf, I should keep it isolated? Yea, I would become famous over-night if this calf is the result of virgin birth.

 

[Stocker Steve]

BTW, what about the lutylase. Keith told me he used lut to clear her out but did not use an accompaning drug with the lut which may account for why it did not abort the embryo. I think it was something like methazodine not sure. He also said she may have hit the window when it was too early for lut to abort.

Nothing is 100%, and lute is not even close.
It is supposed to "work well" at less than 60 days.
My experience is about 2 out of 3 abort with one shot.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Ron
I would keep the heifer and calf separate until you get test results back. We just take a notch of the ear (we used a pig ear notcher) and put it in a vial and the vet ships it off. If I remember correctly, it is $3 a sample, and we get results back in a few days. Better to be safe than sorry. The heifer is old enough to calf, so no big deal there, unless the bull calf that got her is not a calving ease. What does Keith think? Is he concerned about what might have bred her? I would be on close baby watch!

 

[inyati13]

Ron
I would keep the heifer and calf separate until you get test results back. We just take a notch of the ear (we used a pig ear notcher) and put it in a vial and the vet ships it off. If I remember correctly, it is $3 a sample, and we get results back in a few days. Better to be safe than sorry. The heifer is old enough to calf, so no big deal there, unless the bull calf that got her is not a calving ease. What does Keith think? Is he concerned about what might have bred her? I would be on close baby watch!

Kris,
Keith said all the bulls were Simangus, registered and breeding stock. He thought all of them would fit the bill for CE. I am watching. She would have to be at 9 months about now. I did not put her with a bull until April and to be this far along would mean she had to be bred no later than the middle of December.

 

[glacierridge]

How far did you haul her?

 

[inyati13]

How far did you haul her?

They delivered her and another heifer from about 25 miles.