We've had one 8 month old hiefer die and another really sick with symptoms that no one can explain. The first one was found laying on her side, late in the evening, with froth and bubbles coming out her nose and mouth with each breath. We rolled her onto her other side thinking it might help. By morning she was dead. About 5 days later in the morning we found another one lying on her side doing the same thing. The night before she was perfectly fine. We immediately gave her a shot of Oxymycin and called the vet. The vet got there in the late afternoon. He could not say what exactly it was, only that it was respiratory. Her lungs were making a lot of noise. You would first think pneumonia but there were no symtoms like fever, lethargy, etc. Her temp was 102. Never coughed once. And there was no bloat. Before the vet left we gave her a shot of Banamine. This seemed to help. When we checked her the following morning we were sure she was dead because she hadn't moved. As we approached her she kicked and started swishing her tail but couldn't get up. We figured if she made it through this that we had better give her every chance we can. So we drug her into the trailer and brought her to the barn. We've been doctoring her with Banamine once a day. On the second day we tubed her with water because she still hadn't drank or ate. On the 3rd day (the day of this post) we doctored her with another shot of Oxymycin and Vita Jec EA & D. She tries to eat but is so weak she can't even sit up. She is better today than she was when we brought her in. But I'm going to have to get some nutrition in her soon. These hiefers have been weened for over two months and are all looking fantastic with the exception of these two rapidly occuring illnesses. Everyone here is mystified by this. There has been no change in feed. On the first day I did notice a strange looking poop. It reminded me of the first poops out of new born calves. Kind of yellow mucusy looking. There was also what appeared to be a little blood but nothing like what is seen when an animal has Coccidiosis. The girl is peeing and pooping normal now. When we walk in the barn her ears perk up but she hasn't come close to sitting up much less standing. One person thought that she might be brain damaged from lack of oxygen. Does anyone have any thoughts? Any replies will be greatly appreciated.
Mystery illness in 8 mo old hiefers
- Thread starter saylito
- Start date
The whole herd is eating the same stuff. We feed grass hay in large rounds. All the hay we're feeding now came from the same field. One vet we spoke to suggested the possibility of Botulism. This can happen by getting a small animal chewed up in the baler. I just find it hard to believe it has only affected two head. And we havn't seen any sign of a dead animal in the feed. He didn't offer any suggestions on how to treat other than what we're already doing.
Botulism... seen that before. Dairies encounter it from time to time due to feeding a TMR (total mixed ration) in a mixer where everything is thoroughly chopped, mixed, and the animals have no choice but to eat all the feed. Worst stories are the ones of 400 head dying in a night because of one dead cat in the feed. IMO you're better off where the animals can pick through the feed, like when they're fed hay normally like you're doing. That way they can avoid one carcass in a single hay bale.
Anyhow, your first step is to determine whether or not you're dealing with botulism, because it's treated differently than a respiratory problem. Dry hard manure and a down animal in a "milk fever" position (head to flank) are symptoms of botulism.
I've seen quick pneumonia take out large calves like you described -- fine one day, on their way out the next. I wouldn't think taking an animal's temperature that's half dead would be a good indicator of fever or no fever; at that point they tend to go into shock and their temp drops anyway.
If it's pneumonia you need to treat with something harder than just oxytetracycline. Try Baytril or Nuflor. Micotil works too but it's dangerous stuff to work with.
If it is botulism you'd be better off not treating with antibiotics as the bacteria release fatal toxins as they die.
Supportive therapy is vital regardless of what you're dealing with... fluids are a MUST, and a lot of them. Make sure she has feed in front of her too. Other drugs that might help that come to mind are dexamethasone or banamine to reduce inflammation in her lungs (based on what you've said about the calves I'd guess it's a fast-acting pneumonia) and Rally 20/Recover as an antihistamine.
If she's off feed, something like Nutri-drench (think that's what it's called) and an IV of Dextrose (50%) may help too -- she needs energy and at this point may be too weak to get up.
Hope that helps. Those are some ideas to get started -- depends how much effort and time you want to spend on her. Keep us posted.
Anyhow, your first step is to determine whether or not you're dealing with botulism, because it's treated differently than a respiratory problem. Dry hard manure and a down animal in a "milk fever" position (head to flank) are symptoms of botulism.
I've seen quick pneumonia take out large calves like you described -- fine one day, on their way out the next. I wouldn't think taking an animal's temperature that's half dead would be a good indicator of fever or no fever; at that point they tend to go into shock and their temp drops anyway.
If it's pneumonia you need to treat with something harder than just oxytetracycline. Try Baytril or Nuflor. Micotil works too but it's dangerous stuff to work with.
If it is botulism you'd be better off not treating with antibiotics as the bacteria release fatal toxins as they die.
Supportive therapy is vital regardless of what you're dealing with... fluids are a MUST, and a lot of them. Make sure she has feed in front of her too. Other drugs that might help that come to mind are dexamethasone or banamine to reduce inflammation in her lungs (based on what you've said about the calves I'd guess it's a fast-acting pneumonia) and Rally 20/Recover as an antihistamine.
If she's off feed, something like Nutri-drench (think that's what it's called) and an IV of Dextrose (50%) may help too -- she needs energy and at this point may be too weak to get up.
Hope that helps. Those are some ideas to get started -- depends how much effort and time you want to spend on her. Keep us posted.
From book on animal health: Botulism is a rapidly fatal clostridial disease that causes paralysis of muscles, especially of the legs, jaw, and throat. Signs appear 3 to 7 days of ingestion of decomposing of plant or animal material. Muscle weakness starts in the hindquarters and progresses forward to the neck. An animal will appear restless, lack coordination, stumble, and will eventualy fall and be unable to raise its head and neck. This is due to total paralysis in the later stages of developement. Some animals will have normal skin reactions, and will respond to pinpricks with a natural pain reflex. The tongue and jaw become paralyzed, and the animal drools saliva uncontrollably. Constipation, as opposed to diarrhea in many other diseases,is common. Death occurs due to paralysis of respiratory muscles. A mixture of one-third salt, one-third steamed bone meal, and one-third oil seed meal (cottonseed, soybean, etc.) will prevent a general craving for phosphorus or protein. This mixture should be offered free-choice if there is a lot of decaying residue around, to reduse the temptation of cattle to eat decomposing materials.
GMN
Well-known member
Strange looking poop, reminds me of a clostridial bug, but there are usually signs before, but I have had this bug in younger calves where they die within a 24 hour period. The frothing out of the mouth, does not suggest this though. Did you get necropsy done? How about hereditary, their mothers, any problems with them?
Keep us posted
GMN
Keep us posted
GMN
Well it's now day 4. This morning she looked a little poorer so I gave her 2 gallons of electrolites and within a couple of hours she was looking better. She even raised her head when she heard me come in the barn. After about 2 hours I started to give her another quart of electrolites when she let out a big burp. She looked bloated so we sat her up then rolled her over to the other side and the bloat seemed to pass. At about 4:00PM we gave her a shot of Nuflor. Then tubed about another 1 gallon of straight water in her and gave her another shot of Banamine. Earlier in the afternoon she tried to eat which we thought was a good sign. Does anyone know how long we can administer Banamine? I guess it can be hard on the liver?
Regarding the hereditary question; one of the mothers was a 1st year hiefer and the other one is an older cow that has had numerous calves with no problems. We've never had anything like this. We raise North American Corriente and they just seem to be very healthy.
It has been 8 days now and the girl is still alive. Unfortunately she hasn't attempted to stand. If I prop her up with her feet under her she will sit there until she loses her balance and then just flops over. She will eat but only while laying on her side. I propped her up with her head to tail and she seemed comfortable. While in that position she started licking herself. I don't know what might mean, just thought I'd throw it out there for conversation.
On day 7, I started adding Probias to her water once a day and started giving her Nutri-Drench twice a day. So today is the second day for that. I tube her with 1.5 gallons of fluids 3 times per day. When I drag her around by her feet she will try to pull her foot from me so I know she's not paralized. Each day she has all the bedding kicked away from her feet so I know she is moving around. She reminds me of the time when I had bronchial pnumonia compicated with asthma. I wasn't getting any oxygen to my blood and could barely get out of bed.
She tries to stretch her neck and head out which makes me think she is trying to help the air flow.
I've given her a total of three doses of Oxymiacin and one dose of NuFlor, 5 doses of Banamine, one dose of vitamin AE & D. The vets here say that is enough. Any more and we could cause other complications. I'm going to give her 10cc of Bo-Se (a vitamin and selinium shot) today.
Does anyone have any idea how long we should continue? Or if there might be anything else to do? I don't mind spending the time I'm just not sure if it's the right thing to do. I've never had one go this long. Either they come out of it by this time (or at least they're on their feet) or they're dead.
On day 7, I started adding Probias to her water once a day and started giving her Nutri-Drench twice a day. So today is the second day for that. I tube her with 1.5 gallons of fluids 3 times per day. When I drag her around by her feet she will try to pull her foot from me so I know she's not paralized. Each day she has all the bedding kicked away from her feet so I know she is moving around. She reminds me of the time when I had bronchial pnumonia compicated with asthma. I wasn't getting any oxygen to my blood and could barely get out of bed.
She tries to stretch her neck and head out which makes me think she is trying to help the air flow.
I've given her a total of three doses of Oxymiacin and one dose of NuFlor, 5 doses of Banamine, one dose of vitamin AE & D. The vets here say that is enough. Any more and we could cause other complications. I'm going to give her 10cc of Bo-Se (a vitamin and selinium shot) today.
Does anyone have any idea how long we should continue? Or if there might be anything else to do? I don't mind spending the time I'm just not sure if it's the right thing to do. I've never had one go this long. Either they come out of it by this time (or at least they're on their feet) or they're dead.
This sounds an awful lot, almost exactly like the symptoms of the calf I had die. Still have no real idea what caused it. None of the other calf or cows ever got sick. The calf that died didnt last over night though once she was lying on her side.
Good luck
Good luck
Regarding Milkmaids questions;
She will eat on her own. She eats mostly while laying on her side. However she has eaten while sitting up. We tried to get her to drink on her own a few days ago, before we started tubing her. She has such a hard time holding her head up that I don't think she will drink on her own however I am going to try to get her head in a bucket at lunch time during my normal tubing time.
We have her bedded down a good layer of hay placed on top of a concrete floor. When it's really cold I will cover her with a horse blanket. I'm bedding her with hay so she always has feed in front of her no matter what position she's in. The floor slopes to a sump in the center so fluids will drain off. Any wet or dirty bedding is changed daily.
She weighs about 400 lbs.
Do you think the concrete floor is a problem?
She will eat on her own. She eats mostly while laying on her side. However she has eaten while sitting up. We tried to get her to drink on her own a few days ago, before we started tubing her. She has such a hard time holding her head up that I don't think she will drink on her own however I am going to try to get her head in a bucket at lunch time during my normal tubing time.
We have her bedded down a good layer of hay placed on top of a concrete floor. When it's really cold I will cover her with a horse blanket. I'm bedding her with hay so she always has feed in front of her no matter what position she's in. The floor slopes to a sump in the center so fluids will drain off. Any wet or dirty bedding is changed daily.
She weighs about 400 lbs.
Do you think the concrete floor is a problem?
Couple thoughts... yes concrete or any slick surface can be detrimental to a downer; hard for them to get their feet under them so they can get up.
Next... what breed is she? bottle calf? 400lbs at 8 months is pretty light. If she wasn't getting adequate nutrition before this point then that sure doesn't help -- an underweight animal has a harder time fighting off an infection.
Are you giving her grain too? just because she has hay to lay on doesn't mean she'll eat it. I'd put it in a shallow tub for her, and offer her grain in addition.
Next... what breed is she? bottle calf? 400lbs at 8 months is pretty light. If she wasn't getting adequate nutrition before this point then that sure doesn't help -- an underweight animal has a harder time fighting off an infection.
Are you giving her grain too? just because she has hay to lay on doesn't mean she'll eat it. I'd put it in a shallow tub for her, and offer her grain in addition.
Milkmaid thanks for the feedback. Regarding the weight, 400 lbs at 8 months is actually typical for this breed. All of or calves are about the same size. This one is actually one of the bigger ones. She is definately eating hay because I've actually watched her eat; and when I tube her I get some hay from her palate. I like your suggestion about giving her some grain. Another person suggested feeding her Equine Senior, ground up in a liquid mash. Then giving it to her in a tube. What do you think of that? She gives a regular poop so she must be getting something in, in order to get something out. The poops are looking perfectly normal.
Thanks again for the feedback.
Thanks again for the feedback.
I'd skip the equine senior mash -- first off because she's not used to it and won't eat it on her own, and then every time she's tubed that's added stress for her. The less stress the better. I'd just give her plain grain (corn or barley) and let her try it on her own. If she's never had grain before she may not eat it though.
Regarding her manure... I'm not entirely certain, but I think I remember reading it takes about 72 hours for feed to pass through a cow. Also, that a mature cow can have 400lbs of weight as feed in her rumen. Seems to me I've never seen a cow, no matter how sick or off feed it was, not have some output. Especially not if it were suddenly stressed. LOL.
How much water is she drinking per day? A mature cow can take in 20+ gallons a day; I've got 800lb calves drinking 10 gallons apiece per day -- I'd figure this calf should get 5 gallons a day especially where she's sick.
Regarding her manure... I'm not entirely certain, but I think I remember reading it takes about 72 hours for feed to pass through a cow. Also, that a mature cow can have 400lbs of weight as feed in her rumen. Seems to me I've never seen a cow, no matter how sick or off feed it was, not have some output. Especially not if it were suddenly stressed. LOL.
How much water is she drinking per day? A mature cow can take in 20+ gallons a day; I've got 800lb calves drinking 10 gallons apiece per day -- I'd figure this calf should get 5 gallons a day especially where she's sick.
Yes, what breed are your heifers? 400# at 8 months sounds more like she is down from lack of nutrition. Are they bottle calves?
She's weak & down & you have only been feeding her HAY??? Hope it's the best darn hay around. You sound like you are doing a lot of work to keep her alive, but it sounds like she needed help prior to going down. We may be all off on this, but to a cattle producer, something doesn't add up.
She's weak & down & you have only been feeding her HAY??? Hope it's the best darn hay around. You sound like you are doing a lot of work to keep her alive, but it sounds like she needed help prior to going down. We may be all off on this, but to a cattle producer, something doesn't add up.
I hope so - than she isn't dealing with malnutrition, but HAY along is not enough for her. BUT, you cannot give her a LOT of grain if she has not been eating it. I would start out with a sweetened feed, most cattle cannot resist sweet feed. No more than 4# per day. (2# am & 2#pm)
