Murray Greys from NZ

[waihou]

Just thought I would post a picture of some of our spring crop of calves. Calving all but finished-two late mated left to go.
Twenty seven unassisted and mainly unobserved births in 8 weeks-and all shades of light silver to black and all growing very well!
Only problem is, 19 heifer calves and only 8 bulls.

The oldest calf is 207 at the front who was born 7th July, and the youngest at the rear 3 days old in this photo, born on 21st August, in front of her dam, the one with a big udder. The cow is a daughter of Ballee Thumbs Up which I know some USA MG breeders will have used as an AI sire.
This is an outdoor operation, no barns or feed pads, no hard feeding only grass and hay or silage. We have a few frosts in winter and quite a lot of rain all year round, thankfully no snow, but we can see it on the mountain tops not too far away!

 

[OK Jeanne]

Beautiful babies!! And WOW, look at the udder on that
cow---she could feed triplets I'll bet. We have a very
nice daughter of Ballee Thumbs Up--she has plenty of
milk also but not that much size on the udder. If the
calf is only 3 days old, I guess her udder will adjust
in size in a couple more days. Really nice looking calves!
Congrats on your spring season!

 

[Joy in Texas]

Waihou, Now thats some very nice cows and calves. Nice place.

 

[waihou]

This is the sire of the calves in the photo, he is by Springwell Trump Card who is an Aussie AI sire for those MG breeders who follow their EBV's This winter, June and last summer, January photos.

He is a 5 year old and has given us some hefty calves, but apart from one back legs presentation, none have had to be assisted in 3 years. They average over 42 kgs or 85lbs this year. His dam is a trait leader for low birth weight, in fact she has a minus figure for birth weight.
Xtras heaviest calf this year was 52kgs, or 105lbs which is pretty large for a Murray Grey.

Last season his best bull calf weighed 426kgs or 862 lbs weaned at 273 days of age. Which is a gain of 1.4kgs/day or about 2.8lbs. How does that compare to USA data?

 

[OK Jeanne]

He's a beauty! In my opinion, 2.8 lbs per day is terrific...
but I admit I would be hesitant about the birthweights.
What's the bull's frame score and typical weight?

 

[vs_cattle]

NICE LOOKING CATTLE!

 

[waihou]

He's a beauty! In my opinion, 2.8 lbs per day is terrific...
but I admit I would be hesitant about the birthweights.
What's the bull's frame score and typical weight?

Not sure of his current weight as he hasn't been weighed for over 12 months-he was 980kgs about 1984lbs then.He hasn't been measured but I'm picking about a FS6. I'm 5 foot 8 so his hip is about level with my shoulder if that is any help? ;-)

We've had 62 calves by him so far, so with only one assist due to a backwards calf I'm fairly confident his long lean calves are OK, plus to grow a good animal you need a fairly reasonable birth weight ;-)

Here is one of last years heifer calves taken in March, before weaning. She is pictured at an "All Breeds beef show" where she placed first in a class of 15 heifer calves including 8 Simmentals, 4 Herefords and 2 Highlands! No meal feeding, just grass and Mums milk. She weaned at 385kgs-779lbs a month later. BW 79lbs, daily gain 1.21kgs/day-or 2.45lbs

One of last years bull calves by Xtra. He weaned at 408kgs or 826lbs at 296days. His daily gain was 1.22kgs/day 2.47lbs Pictured at weaning in April, with mothers just the other side of the fence. BW 45 kgs 101lbs

 

[*Cowgirl*]

VERY NICE

 

[gberry]

very nice bull and good looking set of calves. I wish we had the same genetic selection in the US. Bulls like that are hard to find over here and even semen can be difficult to find. One of the biggest problems with Murray Greys in my opinion.

 

[OK Jeanne]

very nice bull and good looking set of calves. I wish we had the same genetic selection in the US. Bulls like that are hard to find over here and even semen can be difficult to find. One of the biggest problems with Murray Greys in my opinion.

Hi gberry:

I hope you are somewhat mistaken re availability of the
larger type Murray Grey bulls! :?:

Here's a link to Eagles Run ranch and their for sale page.
Their program is to breed the larger framed bulls and
they do use Australian(mainly) and New Zealand
genetics, as well as North American semen. What they
are doing does not fit into our farm's objectives, but just
might be exactly what you look for:

http://www.eaglesrun.com/sale/salebulls.html

I think they do have semen for sale, as well as embryos.
Give Diana a call--she's a lot of fun to visit with!

 

[gberry]

I've spoken with her before. It's not that there is no semen available (she had just sold all of her bulls to one buyer when I last called), it's that the selection is very limited. I did an extensive search last year and could only come up with about 35 available sires in the US. There were certainly some good bulls in that group (some bad ones also), but that is a pretty limited selection.

 

[OK Jeanne]

I've spoken with her before. It's not that there is no semen available (she had just sold all of her bulls to one buyer when I last called), it's that the selection is very limited. I did an extensive search last year and could only come up with about 35 available sires in the US. There were certainly some good bulls in that group (some bad ones also), but that is a pretty limited selection.

How about this one? He has a perfect 6 "star" rating for
the tenderness genes:

 

[gberry]

He was included but also brings up another problem with Murray Greys. Namely two breed associations. He's a nice bull but I'm partial to having EPDs and as best I can tell they are unavailable on him. He is also not an approved sire on the AMGA list. I wasn't involved with Murray greys when the rift occured, but I think it is ridiculous. It really handcuffs breeders. I understand the objection to whole herd reporting, but I think EPDs are required to compete with the more popular breeds. Unfortunately, until some changes are made, MGs will still be a "niche" breed here in the US. It's too bad as I feel they have a lot to offer.

 

[OK Jeanne]

I wasn't involved with Murray greys when the rift occured, but I think it is ridiculous. It really handcuffs breeders. I understand the objection to whole herd reporting, but I think EPDs are required to compete with the more popular breeds. .

What the board of AMGA tried to pull, in the year 2000, would
have turned half the purebred breeders into commercial
herds overnight. They only relented on their "cow tax"
whole-herd reporting scheme (and now allow regular
one-time registration) after they lost over half their
membership. If they had succeeded, many many valuable
bloodlines would have been lost as far as purebred pedigrees
are concerned. Overall, it was an attempt by a few
breeders, who were in control of the board, to force all the
membership to pay for a service that most were not
interested in for themselves. So it goes. I'm personally not
offended or upset at the thought of Murray Greys being
a "niche" breed. IMO their highest and best use is to
produce beef in a direct-marketing production plan;
in part because of the genetic propensity for tenderness.

 

[gberry]

For all intents and purposes, those bloodlines are lost now. I'm not offended by them being a niche breed either, but I feel they could make a positive contribution on a much broader basis if the data to help commercial cattlemen choose a MG bull was readily available. As it is most commercial cattlemen are more interested in BW, WW and YW EPD's than they are in how many stars they scored on the tenderness gene.

It's just too bad the registries can't get back together as that would broaden the number of available sires to both groups. Then the AMGA members would benefit from sires they can't currently use and the MGIA would be able to get some numerical data to help market their bulls to a broader audience.

 

[OK Jeanne]

It's just too bad the registries can't get back together as that would broaden the number of available sires to both groups. Then the AMGA members would benefit from sires they can't currently use and the MGIA would be able to get some numerical data to help market their bulls to a broader audience.

MGIA members can use any bull presently registered with
MGIA, AMGA, the Australian Society and the New Zealand
group---all are welcome in our registry. Any of our
members that want to pay for the EPD system can do
so through the AMGA system----it just costs quite a lot
to do that. Personally, we don't think we have ever
lost a sale of a bull or heifer because we did not have
EPD numbers on the animal-----but then we generally
sell to people interested in producing beef, not those
participating in the feedlot system of production. If any
of our animals are not top breeding quality, then they
are converted to beef----and EPDs are not needed for
that either. We felt our money was best spent on gene
testing. As they say YMMV(your mileage may vary!!!)

 

[waihou]

Interesting discussion there on the politics of the split,I wondered why it happened but will not go into that.

Because of the small size/population of New Zealand Murray Greys are a little thin on the ground and we have a very limited supply of blood lines as well. Aboout 1400 registered dams I believe. Occaisionally some new blood arrives in the form of semen from Australia which someone is keen enough to get through the very rigorous importation process. One sale of the resultant progeny and just about everyone in the country has the blood line! Well, that is a bit of an exageration but with only about 60 registered breeders and of those only a handful interested in recording, EBV's (EPD's to you) and gene testing, then our choice is really limited if we want to improve our herds and take all the available data into consideration.

The dark grey bull, Xtra, pictured has been Genestar tested and has all 8 stars for tenderness, also 1 star for marbling and 2 stars for feed efficiency. Of three of his progeny from last year we had tested the heifer calf pictured in this thread also had 8 tenderness stars and 5 out of a possible 8 for feed efficiency and the other two heifers were also 6 stars and 4 and 5 stars for feed efficiency.

There is no feed lotting or grain feeding here as in Australia and USA and virtually all cattle regardless of breed are finished on grass. Feed efficiency can still be of use in this market and the great plus for MG's is that they can be fattened of grass by 20 months to save feeding them through a second winter.


Who is the bull in your picture Jeannne?

Personally I enjoy being able to search through the records of EBV's (EPD's to you) to see what might fit in with our herd. It is also useful to go to a sale and see a magnificent animal to learn that his EPD's are most unsuitable!

 

[gberry]

Interesting discussion there on the politics of the split,I wondered why it happened but will not go into that.

Because of the small size/population of New Zealand Murray Greys are a little thin on the ground and we have a very limited supply of blood lines as well. Aboout 1400 registered dams I believe. Occaisionally some new blood arrives in the form of semen from Australia which someone is keen enough to get through the very rigorous importation process. One sale of the resultant progeny and just about everyone in the country has the blood line! Well, that is a bit of an exageration but with only about 60 registered breeders and of those only a handful interested in recording, EBV's (EPD's to you) and gene testing, then our choice is really limited if we want to improve our herds and take all the available data into consideration.

The dark grey bull, Xtra, pictured has been Genestar tested and has all 8 stars for tenderness, also 1 star for marbling and 2 stars for feed efficiency. Of three of his progeny from last year we had tested the heifer calf pictured in this thread also had 8 tenderness stars and 5 out of a possible 8 for feed efficiency and the other two heifers were also 6 stars and 4 and 5 stars for feed efficiency.

There is no feed lotting or grain feeding here as in Australia and USA and virtually all cattle regardless of breed are finished on grass. Feed efficiency can still be of use in this market and the great plus for MG's is that they can be fattened of grass by 20 months to save feeding them through a second winter.


Who is the bull in your picture Jeannne?

Personally I enjoy being able to search through the records of EBV's (EPD's to you) to see what might fit in with our herd. It is also useful to go to a sale and see a magnificent animal to learn that his EPD's are most unsuitable!

The politics are ridiculous. There should have been a way around the problem without completely dividing the registry. Now the AMGA allows breeders without whole herd reporting and that is probably what should have happened to start with.

It sounds like you have a lot of the same problems we have here although I was under the impression that Murray Greys were more popular in NZ.

Again, I really like your bull. The bull pictured, I believe, is Silverdawn Jumbo.

I, too, like to have all available data to decide which animals to use. I feel like all the animals with MGIA only have half the data available.

 

[waihou]

I think all Breed Societies go through a similar period of disagreement, some get over it and some split-I know it has happened with several different breeds over here too.

It's a great shame when it can't be resolved as everyone can lose out in the end. The NZMG Society was no different and after much trial and tribulation it has managed to hang in there, some left but then I think more have joined. Same thing was involved, the costs of recording, but then there was a choice and those who did, paid for it, trouble was there were only 9 recording members and they shared the cost of the whole system, whereas if more joined it would have been less for everyone. Now all members pay the same, no extra for recording, but the option is there if they want to. Amazing how many herds are now coming back on line!

I don't think you can ever know how many sales you lose if you don't record.
I know I use the computer scheme, put in the minimums and maximums I want in a bull, and see who has stock that fit the bill, then go a bit deeper, ring them and see if they are for sale, go and have a look, then ask for a DNA test at my expense to see what else lies hidden!

If a bull is not on the system, then he doesn't even get in the short list. As far as our breeding programme goes, we need to know the bull we select is better than what we have already, not just in looks.

I've just taken delivery of a new bull today, he is only almost 14 months old, but has already served his first heifer!
His EBV (Estimated Breeding Values) stack up really well for mating to heifers, Birth weight below avg, 200 day weight on average, milk growth above avg., 600day weight above avg, carcase weight above avg. and also has 8/8stars for tenderness, 5/8 for feed efficiency and 3/8 for marbling.

I'll post a photo when I take one. He's just a bull, but great temperament, just strolled off the truck after 24 hours of travel, truck swaps (he's been on 3) and overnight in the carriers yards on his own. Without the figures we wouldn't have found him, or picked him for potential.

 

[gberry]

I'd like to see him.

The opinions you expressed are very similar to mine and I think folks miss sales by not having them recorded. My biggest complaint, though, is that the split has significantly reduced the available number of sires for my herd.

Hopefully this will resolve itself with time or the registry will grow large enough that it doesn't matter as much.