Moving to a new farm with an OLD house?

[WalnutCrest]

We're seriously considering selling our current spot and moving about 45 minutes west for a smaller house and substantially more dirt.

This new place has an old house that needs several things (mainly relating to septic and drinking water quality (old well is kaput) and big potential for mineral deposits throughout the existing water lines as the dishwasher is seized up with lime). The old house appears to be quite dry (there is no musty smell anywhere; for my wife with the very sensitive nose, this is a very good thing), with good electrical, newer roof, good A/C (to the lower level only) and heat (to the lower level only). Again, other than heat/AC to the upstairs, the only problems really seem to be relating to the water / septic. Oh, and the tiny size of the bedrooms on the 2nd floor...

I've never owned a house quite this old before.

Any tips for how to look at this, including how to value this old of a house with good bones but in real serious need of work?

 

[JMJ Farms]

As far as coming up with a value..... Look for similar sales in the area. Then compare the similarities and differences of the sales to the property you are considering purchasing. Adjust the sales price of the sales according to those differences. Try to find sales that occurred within the last 12 months.

 

[boondocks]

We did the very same thing in 2011. Well, our move was several states over, but to a farm with an old farmhouse with good "bones" and iffy water. Make them give you $ in escrow for a new well and then, once dug, make sure you get it tested. Actually, to back up a bit, before you make an offer, ask around (neighbors,well drillers, dowsers, etc) and make sure you will likely get a good well without drilling to China. Before you move in, if it's not well-insulated, have one of those companies come and do the blow-in insulation. We did it last year and are kicking ourselves for not doing it years ago--it made a HUGE difference in both heating and cooling.

Good luck---in my opinion, a well-kept, solidly built older home is worth several of those new cardboard things that will gone in 100 years (and look like h_ll in half that).

 

[boondocks]

Oh and (as someone else suggested on another thread) put in a good whole house water filter system. It will pay for itself. Might consider on-demand hot water too, while I'm spending your $$!! ;-)

 

[WalnutCrest]

As far as coming up with a value..... Look for similar sales in the area. Then compare the similarities and differences of the sales to the property you are considering purchasing. Adjust the sales price of the sales according to those differences. Try to find sales that occurred within the last 12 months.

No real comparables in the county we are looking in due to odd combo of amount of land, size ans age of house. Thanks.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Oh and (as someone else suggested on another thread) put in a good whole house water filter system. It will pay for itself. Might consider on-demand hot water too, while I'm spending your $$!! ;-)

Good ideas here plus the idea for the insulation.

 

[dun]

As far as coming up with a value..... Look for similar sales in the area. Then compare the similarities and differences of the sales to the property you are considering purchasing. Adjust the sales price of the sales according to those differences. Try to find sales that occurred within the last 12 months.

No real comparables in the county we are looking in due to odd combo of amount of land, size ans age of house. Thanks.

Ignore the land value, figure out what the house would sell by itself. Then look for comps for just the house. Or, if you have a realtor you really trust, have them figure the comps for you

 

[Cross-7]

If I'm the buyer and the land is sizable I'd down play the value of the home and seem overly concerned about the issues you mentioned.
I would act like I was uninterested in the home due to the issues you mentioned and try to put very little value in the home and focus more on the land value.

If I were selling I'd remedy the water issue's, replace the dishwasher and put the buyers mind as ease to maximize the value of the home.

 

[Nesikep]

Our house was built in 1934.. with used materials back then! This being dryland, and it having been built with fir 2x4's, they're solid.. actually, they're more than that.. you pretty much need a Hilti gun to drive a nail into them. When we moved in, the putty was all gone from the 12pane windows, and it was quite a wreck... over the last 10 years, every room (kitchen coming this year) has been totally renovated, new roof, new plumbing, new floors and walls.. and new siding.
when it's -15F out with winds, 2x4 uninsulated walls make you stay close to the fireplace.. that's been fixed, most of the walls are R20 2x6, with High E vinyl sliding windows.. we went from using 5 cords of wood a year to under 3, and this year it looks like 2 cords might nearly do it.
We have very good creek water, but it does have some gravel and occasional pine needle, we put in a Rusco filter from www.freshwatersystems.com, and it's been good so far.. the real test will be when we have spring runoff (only lasts a week, we can deal with it)

 

[Sd1030]

Blown in insulation is a nightmare from a fire hazard issue.

 

[bball]

Foundation? Slab on grade? Crawl space or basement? Check it out. Make sure is solid whatever type you have as this can be a MAJOR expense. Definitely contact local, reputable well driller in area to find out any potential problems with adding a new well (almost bought a large acreage in upstate NY, until I found out there was no water to be had from a local driller who had popped 6 very deep holes on the place). Also contact a septic man and find out if conventional will work, or if you're looking at aerobic digester or another higher cost system. Utilize all that info as leverage for negotiating. While older homes are often cheaper to buy, it does cost to renovate and only you know what the minimum is you will settle for. Sweat equity is a beautiful thing....if you have time, patience and skills to do it.
Good luck whatever you chose.

 

[HDRider]

Danger, danger, danger Will Robinson.

Word of warning, this is going to cost much more than you EVER imagined.

Almost done and I would never do this again. I'd knock the old house down and build a new one.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Blown in insulation is a nightmare from a fire hazard issue.

Cellulose blown in insulation is fire retardant and does not burn well if at all. No fire hazard with it.

Walnut, if the county has an online tax Assessors site, pm me some info and I will help you with the value.

 

[12251HD]

I bought an old farm house very cheap, circa 1901, a few years ago that sits next to my farm. Replaced all plumbing, upgraded electrical, renovated bathroom, water well cleaned out, and added a water system and central AC. Replaced all windows and doors. Except for well, AC, and windows, did all the work myself--acquired lots of new skills in the process. Resulted in a very nice, century old farm house at modest cost. I would not have done it different. Good luck.

 

[Sd1030]

Jmj you are correct in it being fire retardant, however it will smolder and cause problems. Ive seen it first hand, been on several fires where houses had blown in insulation. One in particularr had old wiring that and the insulation on the wiring got a knick in it. Home owner smelt something burning and checked everywhere before checking the attic, needless to say thats where the fire was. It had burnt two rafters nearly into. We was able to stop it before it got bad. The blown in insulation had laid there and smoldered and started walking across the attic, you couldnt see it with the naked eye but it showed when you put the thermal image camera on it. This is just one of several calls where that type insulation has been a bad deal. Just because something is fire retardant dont mean it wont burn, our turnout gear is fire retardant to a point but it will burn, seen it happen.

 

[CottageFarm]

Evaluate the house and dirt separately. Look for comps for the acreage first, thats where the majority of the value lies.
You dont say how old or how small, and there are local variables. Typically, small older houses, in small, rural areas, without a high buyer demand, the house itself (assuming substantial acreage) will only add $20 - 50,000 to the total price. If the house needs much in the way of significant structural work, even less. If theres been alot of structural improvement, could be a bit more, but not much.

By structural improvements, Im referring not just to the framing, but also foundation, mechanicals, well/septic/leachfield,
plumbing and electrical. Youve already mentioned that w/s/l needs work, HVAC needs work, plumbing needs work.
1. Check foundation condition and stability. Do doors still fit there frames, or do they all seem out of wack?
2. Electrical...What type of wiring/cables...ie... Cloth wrapped romex style, Round cloth wrapped, modern romex, the old ceramic insulators, etc. Look at the service panel, Modern breakers or older fuses. Aluminum or copper wire.
Unless it has been rewired in the last 10 years, assume some upgrades will be needed. Even 20 years ago people would put in new panels and wiring but still only 100-150 amp service which is insufficient for most lifestyles today.
3. If the water source is hard water, assume some lines are corroded and will need replacement.
4. The upstairs not being climate controlled is no big deal. For me would even be a plus, as it easily allows for a second system, thereby giving you zoned climate control.

If you can do most of the work yourself, its definitely worth every penny. Its pretty easy to add on for more sq footage. If you have to contract out everything....it can be a money pit, and youre better off building new. You can try selling the house separate under the stipulation it has to be moved from the property, or gut it and use as a workshop/office.

Personally, I prefer to work with an old house over a new one, but its what I do for a living. That said, its not a project for the faint of heart or impatient type. There are definitely some interesting things that can turn up that would try the patience of Job.

 

[dun]

There are definitely some interesting things that can turn up that would try the patience of Job.

When I was a yonker my dad redid our house. It had started as a 1 room fishing shack on the edge of a lake. By the time we bought it it had grown to 2 stories and a basement. and was a mile from the lake. For drywall they had used cardboard, corrigated of course. Insulation was wadded up newspaper. You could tell how old an addition was by the age of the newspapers in the walls.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I'm pretty comfortable with numbers and am trying to evaluate the dirt and house separately. Unfortunately, I'm coming up with a range of potentially justifiable values where the high is nearly 40% higher than the low (probably, the range is really more like a high that's 20% above the low, but a pretty good argument could be made for the wider range). And, even with the tighter range of values, that's an enormous swing.

Without getting into the specifics of my financial situation, here's how some recent pasture land has sold near this place over the last month:

* The property we're looking at is for "X" number of acres. It has no perimeter fence and only one pond. The pasture that's widely known to be "the best pasture in the county" just sold at auction about 2 weeks ago for $Y / ac (it has really good perimeter fence, cross fence, three ponds and very sporadic trees for shade with no trees along the fence line to muck up the fences); this property is 1.1X acres (so, 10% more acres than the place we're looking at). Another similar (but not as good) property of 0.6X acres (it has 40% fewer acres than the place we're looking at) sold at the same auction for 1.4Y (it sold for 40% more per acre than "the best pasture in the county") ... but ... this sale was to the guy right next door (who'd have a higher value on it than anyone else due to the shared fenceline).

* About a month ago, a very nice pasture (good perimeter fences and a great view overlooking a large recreational lake) of 0.6X acres sold for 0.9Y ... but a similar property (albeit a handful fewer acres) sold for 1.15Y / ac.

So, recent prices are really all over the place and prices are largely being driven by whether or not an immediate neighbor wants it or not. Take the size-weighted average of these places, and you get a price of 1.13Y for this particular property we're looking at ... except there are no perimeter fences. So, deduct out the value of a good perimeter fence from there to get to an as-is value (to me). Leave the fences off the property an a hunter might value it more than I do as pasture ... hence the enormous range in arguable value.

As it regards houses, this place is over 100 years old ... but ... it had about 50% of the overall square footage added to it about 45yrs ago. So, at least half of the wiring is not older than (say) 1970-ish. Total area under the roof is around 2000 sqft. Basement is rock / cement and appears pretty solid. I'm not a structural engineer ... but, it looks pretty good to me. As an older engineer told me once, "If it's that old and it hasn't fallen down yet, it probably won't unless it gets help." So, that's my current operating theory about the basement. There was NO musty smell when my wife were down there -- nor was there any sort of bleachy smell or any fragrance of any sort. No hint of excess dampness or mold. It doesn't appear they were trying to hide anything at all. It wasn't perfectly dry, but it sure didn't seem bad in any way. Very low ceilings means I'm not going down there very often -- the house was built for someone other than my 6'4" self...

Any rules of thumb for how much it might cost to replace all of the pipes in a house that size (1.5 bathrooms; 2000-ish square feet; two stories, plus a tiny basement)? As it regards the pipes, I'm assuming the worst here because I know they sometimes go elsewhere to wash their clothes and the dishwasher doesn't work and they drink water out of a jug they bought at the store. As it regards the septic, I'm assuming the worst because the seller told me they don't flush the paper ... ACK! The roof is 10-15 years old and I didn't see anything that looked like a current leak (other than one of the upstairs window sills appeared to have a bit of dry-rot). The bones appear pretty good.

As it regards DIY projects, my wife and I have redone a couple of houses ... but none while we were trying to live there ... and none where we didn't have my dad to help do and advise (my dad died unexpectedly last summer; he was a general contractor). So, hence my questions from the collective here ... thanks! As it regards actually doing the work, generally I'm more comfortable with redoing wood floors and hanging sheet rock than I am with pipes or electricity. Wife is pretty good with taping, mudding and painting. There won't be much tile work and there probably won't be much fine carpentry work (anything fancy like installing a new stairs will probably be attempted once by me, and if it fails, would get hired out).

 

[cowboy43]

Old houses no insulation, when I worked for the electric coop , I would deal with people who ungraded old houses without insulation to central heat and air, their electric bill were more than the mortgage payment, they would blame the electric company for high bills, they would not accept it was their house without insulation.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Right.

Insulation is a huge must.