Mixing WDGS and WCGF?

[skip7879]

I know I just made a posting but has anyone just mixed wcgf and wdgs and fed it as a finishing ration seems like it might work. The university of Neb tried it and they said they mixed alfalfa hay with it and they got around 4lbs adg doing this. Has anyone done this or is doing this or have they added alittle corn to it. I like the economics of it but just would like to hear opinions. Thanks Skip.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Iowa Beef center has some information(webinar and forum) on Sulfur that you should watch.

 

[TexasBred]

Skip if those two ingredients compose the entire ration it would seem you will be feeding an excesive amount of protein. I'd look at cutting it with corn, soyhulls or something much lower in protein. Will you be feeding hay also??

 

[Amo]

A plant in Columbus Ne is selling a product called Cenergy. Its a 50/50 mix of WDG and WCG. They over drie the WDG because they cant dry the CGF low enough to get it to make the Cenergy to a 45% DM product. Soposedly that way you can feed more of the byproduct and use less corn for energy wile staying away from getting too much fat in the digestive tract (intestines). Some like it and some don't. Guy that runs a feedlot that I sell hay to says they buy it when its priced right and use the feed value of it as if it was plain WDG.

Id watch what UNL says. The Nebraska corn board gives them a lot of money for reasearch! They did a trial once that said for backgrounding you could feed lots of MWDG and no corn. My gain wasn't very good, but they were super grean and sold like hot cakes. On the flip side though, the smaller calves didn't do worth a dang on it. Proably should of split the groups. IDK if they just didn't have enough "capacity" to eat enough rough hay and ddg or the bigger calves hogged it up. I talked to Ramsey about it, telling him it didn't work worth a dang. He couldn't figure it out. A few people around here have used no corn and they just don't gain. Feed tests may say there is enough energy there, but it sure don't cut the mustard. Now if you were wanting to rough em through the winter for grass yearlings (put frame on) it would work super.

 

[skip7879]

Well I work for at a Wet corn mill which is where corn gluten feed is produced, thats my day job, feeding cattle is a dream/slash/hobby/keeps me sane. Anyway Sulfur was one of my main concerns. WCGF i pretty low in protein about 8% protein on ave. Its pretty fiberus and I would like to think it has alot of fat in it, WDDGs I don't have alot of experiance with but I do know its pretty high in protein like 30% . I would think you would have to add corn to it. To get some starch in the rations

 

[TexasBred]

Well I work for at a Wet corn mill which is where corn gluten feed is produced, thats my day job, feeding cattle is a dream/slash/hobby/keeps me sane. Anyway Sulfur was one of my main concerns. WCGF i pretty low in protein about 8% protein on ave. Its pretty fiberus and I would like to think it has alot of fat in it, WDDGs I don't have alot of experiance with but I do know its pretty high in protein like 30% . I would think you would have to add corn to it. To get some starch in the rations

Just keep in mind that both of these products are fed as protein supplements and are not intended to replace corn.

 

[blacksnake]

I think skip may be looking the wet percent protein on the WCGF wrong. I bet it is 8% "as is", more like 20-25% on a dry basis. Also the WDDGs would not have 30% protein "as is" but would be close to 30% on a dry basis.

 

[TexasBred]

I think skip may be looking the wet percent protein on the WCGF wrong. I bet it is 8% "as is", more like 20-25% on a dry basis. Also the WDDGs would not have 30% protein "as is" but would be close to 30% on a dry basis.

True....why I recommended cutting it with other ingredients much lower in protein.

 

[skip7879]

Your right corrected basis for moisture is about 20-22% for WCGF

 

[BRG]

We are feeding our sale bulls a little different this year. As we decided corn was to dang high priced. Our nutritionist come up with this. Here is what they are getting, this is for a 2.5 to 3lbs a day gain.

39% - Corn silage(we combined some and it did 60 bushel to the acre, so not much corn there)
33% Modified Wet Distillers
14% - 2 year old grass/alfalfa hay
14% - 2 year old millet straw

This ration tested out to be 15.23% protein and comes to a .49 NEg (MCAL)

We did a test weight on them last week and we have 2 pens of bulls that will be a year of age in March. They are sorted by size. The bigger bulls were gaining 3.38 lbs/day and the smaller bulls are gaining 3.15 lbs/day - We may have to slow them down some, we will take another test weight in 3 weeks. If they are still doing this, we will back off on them as I don't want to get them fat. Anyway, I posted this so you can see that Distillers will do it without the help of corn. BUT, you need to have your minerals and vitamins included or you could have some issues.

 

[TexasBred]

The total ration is what is working. The distillers complimenting the other ingredients. What is the daily consumption per head per day of this ration? Should be a very mellow feed, easy on the rumen and apparently is doing exactly what you hoped it woul do.

 

[BRG]

The total ration is what is working. The distillers complimenting the other ingredients. What is the daily consumption per head per day of this ration? Should be a very mellow feed, easy on the rumen and apparently is doing exactly what you hoped it woul do.

Now this is at an as fed ration and as fed they are getting 35.77 lbs each. Now you need to understand that alot of that is water, as the modified wet distillers is 50% water, the silage is probably 60% water, so it really takes it down.

If my math is correct here it is on a dry matter basis:
Silage - 5.5 lbs
Distillers - 6 lbs
Hay - 9 lbs

 

[Mid South Guy]

I see and hear a lot of people asking if distiller grains and gluten feeds are a good feed. That's not the right question. One must understand that they are not "feeds" but are FEED INGRDIENTS available to be used to formulate a complete feed or ration. The correct question should be, how do I or should I use these INGREDIENTS and what others do I need to formulate a total ration? The answer depends on several factors such as quality and type of forage, type of cattle, stage of production, production goals, costs, etc. The total of everything the animal eats has to be considered and balanced to meet the nutrient requirements of the goals you are trying to reach.

 

[TexasBred]

I see and hear a lot of people asking if distiller grains and gluten feeds are a good feed. That's not the right question. One must understand that they are not "feeds" but are FEED INGRDIENTS available to be used to formulate a complete feed or ration. The correct question should be, how do I or should I use these INGREDIENTS and what others do I need to formulate a total ration? The answer depends on several factors such as quality and type of forage, type of cattle, stage of production, production goals, costs, etc. The total of everything the animal eats has to be considered and balanced to meet the nutrient requirements of the goals you are trying to reach.

Spot on about the CGF and DDG. Been trying to convince a "certain few" of that for a while. Most small producers are not set up to feed multiple formulations to various groups so have to sort of aim for a general purpose ration.

 

[Dusty]

Is anyone combining just WDG and Hay together ?? We mix Straw, WDG and then Prairie hay together .. Place in 2lbs of Corn Germ and Mineral and that is ration... Cows are fat and happy and we get to sell our corn at 7.02 and then use corn stalks for beding and misc feed use..

Why spend the money on silage when WDGs and straw and fullfill those needs ?

 

[TexasBred]

Is anyone combining just WDG and Hay together ?? We mix Straw, WDG and then Prairie hay together .. Place in 2lbs of Corn Germ and Mineral and that is ration... Cows are fat and happy and we get to sell our corn at 7.02 and then use corn stalks for beding and misc feed use..

Why spend the money on silage when WDGs and straw and fullfill those needs ?

Why feed WDG when you can buy the DDG, mix with hay, add your own water and mineral and forget the corn germ?? But corn germ has been a good buy.

 

[BRG]

We use modified distillers which is 50% water 50% distillers. We like it over the dry for a couple reasons. First is keeps the dust down and second it doesn't blow away like the dry does in our winds.

 

[TexasBred]

We use modified distillers which is 50% water 50% distillers. We like it over the dry for a couple reasons. First is keeps the dust down and second it doesn't blow away like the dry does in our winds.

As I said...use your own water. We use to mix our TMR (all dry_ in vertical mixer with the grass hay, alfalfa and whole cottonseed, then add about 1200 lbs. of water to each load we fed. Just enough to dampen everything.

 

[BRG]

We use modified distillers which is 50% water 50% distillers. We like it over the dry for a couple reasons. First is keeps the dust down and second it doesn't blow away like the dry does in our winds.

As I said...use your own water. We use to mix our TMR (all dry_ in vertical mixer with the grass hay, alfalfa and whole cottonseed, then add about 1200 lbs. of water to each load we fed. Just enough to dampen everything.

We have done that in the past, but when every day in the winter is below freezing and some days it is as cold as -40 degrees, handling water isn't the best option.

 

[TexasBred]

We use modified distillers which is 50% water 50% distillers. We like it over the dry for a couple reasons. First is keeps the dust down and second it doesn't blow away like the dry does in our winds.

As I said...use your own water. We use to mix our TMR (all dry_ in vertical mixer with the grass hay, alfalfa and whole cottonseed, then add about 1200 lbs. of water to each load we fed. Just enough to dampen everything.

We have done that in the past, but when every day in the winter is below freezing and some days it is as cold as -40 degrees, handling water isn't the best option.

Handling WDG probably is no fun at -40 either. Glad it's yu and not me regardless of what you're feeding. :nod: