Maximizing Variability for Hard Cull'in ?

[Stocker Steve]

Walked through the cow herd yesterday morning with a cup of Joe. Nice quiet herd and a red sunrise. The calves were some of the most variabled we have raised. Limi bulls over mainly F1 English cross cows really packed the pounds on when the cows have milk, but some other cows had small(er) calves as usual. Angus AI calves out of heifers looked "short" by comparison. Best looking calves were Limi or Victor 719 X out of cows with SH or GV background.
Told the neighbor I planned to cull off the bottom 25% of the cow herd but he said no - - they may be your most efficient cows. Perhaps so, but with all the grass we had this summer I expect pounds. Did not plan for Limi bulls to be a cow sorter but that looks like it is one of the benifits... :cowboy:

 

[Limomike]

And that.. is why I have stuck with Limi bulls on my A1 red angus cows over the past few years.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Who would have thunk it? Dam limi bulls!!

 

[KNERSIE]

Be careful of single trait selection, at least weigh the cows as well and do a BCS on both them and the calves. If you wish you can e-mail that to me and I'll give you my opinion on which cows are not working for you.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Be careful of single trait selection, at least weigh the cows as well and do a BCS on both them and the calves.

I previously sold any cow with a lot of attitude, or a weight over 1400#.
I have one heavy milking cow that shows her ribs, but she always breeds back. The rest of the cows are slick.
What are you proposing to use the cow weights for?

 

[AllForage]

Walked through the cow herd yesterday morning with a cup of Joe. Nice quiet herd and a red sunrise. The calves were some of the most variabled we have raised. Limi bulls over mainly F1 English cross cows really packed the pounds on when the cows have milk, but some other cows had small(er) calves as usual. Angus AI calves out of heifers looked "short" by comparison. Best looking calves were Limi or Victor 719 X out of cows with SH or GV background.
Told the neighbor I planned to cull off the bottom 25% of the cow herd but he said no - - they may be your most efficient cows. Perhaps so, but with all the grass we had this summer I expect pounds. Did not plan for Limi bulls to be a cow sorter but that looks like it is one of the benifits... :cowboy:

Steve,

I agree with your neighbor possibly to a certain extent. The title of your post is exactly what is wrong with the industry and breeding in general. You have so much going on genetically and with heterosis, to hold some cows accountable is not really fair. This type of breeding plans only promotes "outliers" when you should be attempting to raise the "average" of the herd. Treating every year as a horse race will soon bring back those 1400 pounders that you culled. This single trait selection will lead to larger more milkier cows. The single most important trait is a live calf then cows breeding back. Everything else is man imposing his ideas. Not that a good calf isn't important, but you can't have a even playing field with a heinz 57 approach.

There is a thought that our green lush upper midwest forage has got to be the best. It really isn't. Too watery in the spring and fall with cows squirtin water out the back end and then lignified in the heat of the summer. Too high in protein most of the time which causes problems. A beef cow should be programmed to milk X amount no matter the situation (barring extremes). In times of abundant feed she puts fat on her back and little feed takes it off for her calf. Good grass year should boost yearling growth and possibly calves as well. If you kept some calves back I would suspect they would even out eventually on grass.

No offense meant to previous poster, but Steve you are a innovative and smart guy. You don't need to send weights around the world for answers. If anything, even out weaning weights and judge the % each cow wean off. You might find those "short" calves are more profitable. But be conscious of all the heterosis you have going on with the 2-4 way crosses.

My other 2 cents, even the playing field with a good line bred bull and then start to make some conclusions.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I agree that we have watery pasture in the upper midwest. My cows and my stockers really put on condition after the drought started this summer.

I was concerned that keeping the growthy heifers will result in too much cows size but that has not been a problem. I winter them in the trees and breed them to calve at 22 to 24 months so that maybe part of the solution.

I think consistency is overrated in a commercial herd. I sell my early/growthy calves in January or Febuary and take the rest to grass. The smaller calves match up with the stockers I buy and are sold as 800# yearlings in August. I just want my home gorwn stockers to be some of the larger yearlings.

My smaller calves come out of some old cows and 2 heifers that don't seem to have alot of milk. These calves also seem to have more health issues due to nutritinal stress. I plan to cull them if they bred back late or the calves don't respond to creep. It may not be fair to pick on the old, the weak, and the fat, - - but I need to cut herd size at least 25% since it has quit raining here and hay prices are going up.

I think the easist way to improve the average is too cull "the bottom." That is one of the ways we got Beefmasters.