marbling and tenderness genes

[clem]

:?: I learn so much from this forum, it seems like all I do is post questions, and don't contribute much, but, I don't feel like I'm experienced enough to add anything of value. I was wondering which breeds are more likely to carry the marbling and tenderness genes, and how do you find out if a bull has these genes? Also, the semen sources i've looked at have very good looking bulls, but, I'm lookimg for a source that feeds little or no grain. I like Kit Pharo's philosophies (http://www.pharocattle.com) but this is the only source I can find does anyone know of any other sources of semen where the bulls aren't pampered. I raise herefords. Thanks, Clem :lol:

 

[S.R.R.]

Herefords.

http://www.slanker.com/bulls/

 

[andybob]

I don't know of any programme specifically identifying individual bulls as possesing the marbling genes, usually breeds known for these traits are used, British beef breeds are well known for these traits but many other breeds are also equally prepotent for marbling and tenderness. Your Hereford are a good start, reasearch some other breeds to see what will fit your intended programme including adaptability to your regeon before buying bulls; try these links to start with.
http://www.tuliassociation.com
http://www.tuli.co.za/

 

[VanC]

As far as the tenderness gene goes, Pinzgauer and Murray Grey come to mind as breeds that have a high percentage that are 2 star for tenderness. I'm sure there are others.

 

[6M Ranch]

I spoke with a representative at the Stock Show, and they stated they would not release the information. As far as I know, the only way to find out if a particular bull carries both copies of all 5 markers, is from the owner's themselves.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

As far as the tenderness gene goes, Pinzgauer and Murray Grey come to mind as breeds that have a high percentage that are 2 star for tenderness. I'm sure there are others.

Let me reiterate (a-hem)...Murray Grey ....look at the bovigen site, you can look at different breeds, and look at the ratings of individual animals. ;-) :cboy:

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Among Hereford breeders, I would say the foremost breeder of the type of cattle you describe is Jim Lents of Indiahoma, OK. His bulls have been DNA tested, and they are very capable of flourishing on grass. 126 years of line-breeding Anxiety 4th. He has his own publication called The Lamplighter. 25398 SW Coombs Road, Indiahoma, OK 73552. I have never laid eyes on more muscular, thick and deep Herefords. If you are looking for frame 5-6 and very competitive weaning weights, the same basic type of cattle are available from Richard Day of Roff, OK. Day line-breeds Hazlett/Turner Ranch bloodlines. Lents has frame 4-4.5 cattle, and his weaning weights run probably 100-150 pounds less than Day's. PM me for more contact info.

 

[clem]

:?: 6m, could you please explain all 5 markers? Thanks, Clem

 

[Jovid]

MARC has identified four breeds that have the most tendencies to be tender. They are Pinzgauer Piedmontese, South Devon, and Red Poll. The Bovigen website can be misleading as the only results that are posted are the ones that the breeders want posted. When you have a bull or cow tested Bovigen sends you the results and then you have to give them permission to post the results publicly. So just because the website shows several two star animals for a breed it doesn't mean that is true for the whole breed only the ones they want posted.

Red Poll do very well on just grass and are considered one of the tender beef breeds.

 

[BRG]

Clem,

Red Angus is known for the Marbling gene. It is very common to test a Red Angus bull and he comes back with the gene. Just naturally bred into them. Check out my website
http://www.bigredgenetics.com and go to the Big Red side of the site. Then click on the Big Red Genetics link. It will take you to my semen catalog. If you PM me what you are looking for, I will give you some recommendations.

I like you, don't ever want to feed grain to my cows, so these bulls will work for you, not the other way around.

Bryan

 

[6M Ranch]

Clem, as far as I know, there are two markers for marbling, and three recognized genes for tenderness. It also looks like as a group, the British breeds have a higher incidence for these genes. Like all things genetic however, using a 10 star bull won't necessarily produce high marbling/tender offspring.

 

[Jovid]

Clem, as far as I know, there are two markers for marbling, and three recognized genes for tenderness. It also looks like as a group, the British breeds have a higher incidence for these genes. Like all things genetic however, using a 10 star bull won't necessarily produce high marbling/tender offspring.

Kinda depends on the cow. The bull is only half the equation. If you breed a 10 star bull to a zero star cow you can get a zero star calf.

 

[OK Jeanne]

At first, there was one tenderness factor discovered -
calpastatin - and that test was patented by the Australian
GeneStar people. Later MARC released another factor to
the public, calpain, which is for an enzyme that aids in
tenderness during the ageing process. So at that point,
the GeneStar people had 4 "stars" as a perfect tenderness
score. They sold the N.Amer rights to calpastatin to
Bovigen, of Louisiana.

I obtained a breed comparison chart from GeneStar before
they sold to Bovigen. This is when 4 "stars" was a perfect
score:

You will note that Murray Greys have the highest percentage
of one and two star animals among the breeds tested. Only
those breeds with more than 100 animals tested were included on the chart.


Now MARC has released another newly discovered factor;
so the perfect score is 6 "stars". They will not now(and
probably never) release another breed comparison chart
because the one shown above made some Angus breeders
mad(Bovigen is owned by angus people) and really really
made the hereford people mad.

Our murray grey herd bull that we sell semen from has a
perfect 6 star score, as does his 3 yr old son. We are also
using semen from two other murray bulls, that also have
perfect scores.

Heredity/probablilityFrom a Gene Star brochure when they
had 4 stars as a perfect score)

If both sire & dam has the same score, the calf will also.

If sire has 2 stars and dam none, they show 100% chance
that the calf will have one star....

and so on.

You should write for their info packet/brochures to get
the full story.

We have decided not to use any bulls that do not have
a perfect tenderness score---because we sell beef.

 

[6M Ranch]

Like all statistics, you can interpret them a number of different ways. I would also ask how big the sample group was before drawing any conclusions. Did they test ten Murray Grey bulls, and several hundred Angus/Hereford? From my discussion with a representative from Bovigen, these results are based on owner tested bulls only. I don't think any of the results are necessarily representative of any of the breeds as a whole. In other words, if I'm marketing my bull as the next best thing, and was fairly confident beforehand of the results, I will have him tested. As far as Angus are concerned, there seems to be a correlation between bulls with higher marbling EPD's, and multiple star ratings. If that's the case, I would go ahead and have my high EPD bulls tested as an additional marketing tool.

 

[OK Jeanne]

The office manager of Gene Star--in Colorado--before it
was sold to Bovigen, gave me the chart. No breed was
listed until there were over 100 animals tested in that
breed.

All these animals were "owner tested". The owners paid
for the tests. You don't have to publish your results
on their website if you don't want to....but all animals
represented on the chart were tested and the results
(anonymous as to individual animal) were accumulated.

It is a marketing tool; especially if you want to sell bulls
to people that want to sell beef.

 

[lakading]

:?: I learn so much from this forum, it seems like all I do is post questions, and don't contribute much, but, I don't feel like I'm experienced enough to add anything of value. I was wondering which breeds are more likely to carry the marbling and tenderness genes, and how do you find out if a bull has these genes? Also, the semen sources i've looked at have very good looking bulls, but, I'm lookimg for a source that feeds little or no grain. I like Kit Pharo's philosophies (http://www.pharocattle.com) but this is the only source I can find does anyone know of any other sources of semen where the bulls aren't pampered. I raise herefords. Thanks, Clem :lol:

If you're implying that feeding grain is equivilant to pampering, then you're not through with your research.

 

[6M Ranch]

My point is, that even 100 animals tested is not a basis to judge an entire breed. To state as a "conclusion" that Murray Greys are the breed most likely to raise tender beef is an overstatement. Again, I think that breeders of all cattle breeds are only going to release data on animals that test well.

 

[lakading]

Again, I think that breeders of all cattle breeds are only going to release data on animals that test well.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

 

[OK Jeanne]

I don't think I explained the source of the numbers on the
chart very well.

Those animals represented on the chart are NOT just those
that the owners released the results on.....the individual
animals are not named obviously. The company did not
need permission to use statistics gathered from the groups
of animals tested if NO INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS WERE NAMED.

The company, again, did not need permission to use data
that was collected and assimilated which did not identify
anyone's individual animal. The only permission that is
needed is for publication on the genestar website.

Gene Star website is still run by the Australians, but it
shows results (by permission) from American tests also.

Link:

http://www.geneticsolutions.com.au/cont ... ic_Results

Take a look - pick your favorite breed & check off the
boxes that show you are looking for a perfect score in
that breed.

The Angus came in second - much better than Herefords.

Rocky Vess, the manager of Winrock Farms in Arkansas,
did testing on their Santa Gert herd & found a bull with
perfect 2 stars on marbling and also a perfect tenderness
score...needless to say they syndicated the bull &
undoubtedly he will improve many herds of that breed in
this category......just because Angus did not come in
first doesn't mean the statistics are invalid.

 

[clem]

Interesting replies!!