Making N on farm

[Silver]

Green Lightning. Making N on farm. Has anyone heard of this? Sound like snake oil to me, generally if something sounds too good to be true it is. Sure would have potential to be a game changer for some aspects of farming if it is as the makers claim. I think I’ll wait and see.

https://www.greenlightning.ag/

 

[mwj]

When they tell you the N that it produces is a type that can not be measured, it tells me that I would not be interested. If a person has strong enough ''faith'' they are the customer base!

 

[Silver]

When they tell you the N that it produces is a type that can not be measured, it tells me that I would not be interested. If a person has strong enough ''faith'' they are the customer base!

That is where they lost me too. But I see there have been some ongoing trials with the product that are showing some promise, so I will leave the door open a crack to the possibility that there may be some benefit.

 

[bird dog]

A few years back I stopped and talked to a rain capture expert and he mentioned that the lightning was what gave the rainwater the qualities that make it such a great source for watering your garden. It was also the same as when watering your cows with rain water.

 

[mwj]

That is where they lost me too. But I see there have been some ongoing trials with the product that are showing some promise, so I will leave the door open a crack to the possibility that there may be some benefit.

Look closely at those trials and who is doing them. The only response that shows any value is using the product as a carrier for foliar applied products.

Replicated trials are not possible when you have no analysis on the product you are testing. As always there is the effect of ''perceived value''.

 

[Silver]

A few years back I stopped and talked to a rain capture expert and he mentioned that the lightning was what gave the rainwater the qualities that make it such a great source for watering your garden. It was also the same as when watering your cows with rain water.

Lightning causes N to form in the atmosphere and brought down with rain drops. Old timers always said you needed a good thunderstorm to give the crops a good boost. Turns out they were on to something.

 

[Silver]

Look closely at those trials and who is doing them. The only response that shows any value is using the product as a carrier for foliar applied products.

Replicated trials are not possible when you have no analysis on the product you are testing. As always there is the effect of ''perceived value''.

This is from an AI search.


1. Replicated Field Trial Results
Large-scale agricultural research organizations like Beck’s Practical Farm Research (PFR) and Precision Planting’s PTI Farm have tested the system.

• Yield Hit as a Total Replacement: In 2024 and 2025 trials, replacing 100% of a synthetic nitrogen (UAN) program with Green Lightning resulted in significant yield drops—nearly 45 bushels per acre in some corn trials.
• Success as a Supplement: It was proven highly effective when used as a "supplement." For example, using it as a starter followed by traditional sidedress yielded competitive results (207.6 Bu./A in Beck's trials).
• Small Grain Success: Farmers in Western Canada have reported yield bumps in durum wheat (approx. 3.9–4.3 bushels/acre) when the system was used as a foliar top-dress alongside a reduced synthetic base.
  Green Lightning +2

 

[mwj]

Always remember that AI just gathers things that are published. If it gathers more lies than truth you can see some strange results. What does AI say the actual nutrient value of ''green lightning'' is?

What was a ''reduced synthetic base'' that was mentioned in the wheat trial? That is the crap that AI drags in to try and come up with an answer. The system (AI) always tells you something, which may or may not be useful.

 

[Dave]

By mole fraction (i.e., by quantity of molecules), dry air contains 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other trace gases So there is lots of nitrogen floating around out there. It is a matter of science to some how capture it into a plant available form. It would be nice if the method were something available on every farm. Might happen one day.

 

[sstterry]

A few years back I stopped and talked to a rain capture expert and he mentioned that the lightning was what gave the rainwater the qualities that make it such a great source for watering your garden. It was also the same as when watering your cows with rain water.

The reason rain is like that is that it is infused with Ozone. My father taught agriculture, and that was one of his, little known facts he used to tell me. That is why we get that different smell after a spring rainstorm.

 

[bird dog]

Interesting sstterry
From AI

Yes, rain is often infused with trace amounts of ozone (

), particularly during thunderstorms. Lightning strikes create ozone by splitting oxygen molecules (

) in the air, which then rearrange into

. Strong downdrafts from rainstorms carry this ozone from the upper atmosphere down to the surface, contributing to the clean, sharp, and slightly pungent smell often noticed before or after a rain shower.
How Rain Becomes Infused with Ozone:

• Lightning Production: The high-energy electrical discharges from lightning split oxygen molecules, forming ozone (
  
  ).
• Atmospheric Downforce: Rain falling from the sky creates downdrafts that carry this high-altitude ozone down to the ground.
• The Scent of Rain: This ozone is one of the main components of petrichor—the unique, earthy scent of rain—along with plant oils and geosmin.

Ozone in rainwater is a temporary phenomenon; as an unstable molecule, it quickly breaks down into regular oxygen.

 

[1982vett]

Amazing how fast water starved pastures turn green and grows after a good rain...

 

[Silver]

Always remember that AI just gathers things that are published. If it gathers more lies than truth you can see some strange results. What does AI say the actual nutrient value of ''green lightning'' is?

What was a ''reduced synthetic base'' that was mentioned in the wheat trial? That is the crap that AI drags in to try and come up with an answer. The system (AI) always tells you something, which may or may not be useful.

Well, they do cite their sources. I might follow up those references at some point. Personally I think it’s a scam, but I like to leave my mind open to the possibility that there may be some value.

 

[regolith]

Amazing how fast water starved pastures turn green and grows after a good rain...

...but then they need dry days to "harden up" the grass for it to become actual good nutrition for cows.

In exactly that situation now. Almost no rain in March. Thunderstorms nearly daily since then. The cows are going into long lush pasture... and eating through it twice as fast as you'd expect just by looking at the grass.
Old timers here are willing to levy considerable criticism at our modern farmers who seem to have forgotten that clover (legumes) grow grass and that high nitrogen rates applied will advantage the grass to the detriment of the clover which is no longer doing the whole job for free.
The website seems to be aimed at cropping situations. But it also needs to make a far better argument if the farmer isn't going to think they could match the benefits by reducing applied nitrogen and increasing the legume content (or putting legumes into a crop rotation).

Added. I've farmed here for 8 years without applying a jot of artificial nitrogen and the farmer who had the place for ten years before me didn't apply nitrogen regularly either. I'm not sure my observations add anything useful though - the farm has clover and grows grass pretty much as you'd expect for the contour (which is the reason I don't use nitrogen the farm is only driveable in high summer it would have to go on by helicopter). I've had visitor after visitor several years back... I counted around 16 of them... viewing the pasture in early spring insisting it was starved and I must kill someone demanding a truck drive over those hills with urea.
My farm doesn't look starved to me. It grows all through summer because this is a high rainfall area and it definitely lacks the rich green-blue colour of the farms it overlooks - but it has a wide range of legumes and other herbs that can't thrive under a regular nitrogen program. And the animal health issues are so minimal they're not worth mentioning, I worked for an older farmer who told me if he applied nitrogen he'd get lame cows, he did, and he did... as every other farm I'd worked on used nitrogen it had never been possible to make the connection between nitrogen-boosted grass and various cow health conditions before then.
One of those farmers who tried to insist that I use nitrogen said "clover doesn't grow over winter". But it does. What's more, it comes into fast growth right when the weather conditions are right for the *grass* to start growing fast and use more of the soil nutrients. Extra fertiliser won't make grass grow without the weather cooperating.
Don't listen to me though the bank don't consider the farm to be productive enough.

 

[Silver]

...but then they need dry days to "harden up" the grass for it to become actual good nutrition for cows.

In exactly that situation now. Almost no rain in March. Thunderstorms nearly daily since then. The cows are going into long lush pasture... and eating through it twice as fast as you'd expect just by looking at the grass.
Old timers here are willing to levy considerable criticism at our modern farmers who seem to have forgotten that clover (legumes) grow grass and that high nitrogen rates applied will advantage the grass to the detriment of the clover which is no longer doing the whole job for free.
The website seems to be aimed at cropping situations. But it also needs to make a far better argument if the farmer isn't going to think they could match the benefits by reducing applied nitrogen and increasing the legume content (or putting legumes into a crop rotation).

Added. I've farmed here for 8 years without applying a jot of artificial nitrogen and the farmer who had the place for ten years before me didn't apply nitrogen regularly either. I'm not sure my observations add anything useful though - the farm has clover and grows grass pretty much as you'd expect for the contour (which is the reason I don't use nitrogen the farm is only driveable in high summer it would have to go on by helicopter). I've had visitor after visitor several years back... I counted around 16 of them... viewing the pasture in early spring insisting it was starved and I must kill someone demanding a truck drive over those hills with urea.
My farm doesn't look starved to me. It grows all through summer because this is a high rainfall area and it definitely lacks the rich green-blue colour of the farms it overlooks - but it has a wide range of legumes and other herbs that can't thrive under a regular nitrogen program. And the animal health issues are so minimal they're not worth mentioning, I worked for an older farmer who told me if he applied nitrogen he'd get lame cows, he did, and he did... as every other farm I'd worked on used nitrogen it had never been possible to make the connection between nitrogen-boosted grass and various cow health conditions before then.
One of those farmers who tried to insist that I use nitrogen said "clover doesn't grow over winter". But it does. What's more, it comes into fast growth right when the weather conditions are right for the *grass* to start growing fast and use more of the soil nutrients. Extra fertiliser won't make grass grow without the weather cooperating.
Don't listen to me though the bank don't consider the farm to be productive enough.

The only fertilizer I generally use is some P and K, but P (DAP) comes with N so it is what it is. I like to start my legumes in my hay crops with a PK blend to get them up and healthy so they feed my grasses.
With regards to my original post, I’m just curious as to whether there is any substance to the claims or if it’s just another perpetual motion machine type scam.

 

[bhooper]

I don’t know about their method but it’s definitely possible to remove nitrogen from the air and condense it into liquid form. We have a unit like this where i work.

 

[Silver]

I don’t know about their method but it’s definitely possible to remove nitrogen from the air and condense it into liquid form. We have a unit like this where i work.
View attachment 67289

Right, and when you look at that set up you’d be hard pressed to believe you could do it with a machine that plugs into a 110v outlet with a 15a breaker

 

[wbvs58]

...but then they need dry days to "harden up" the grass for it to become actual good nutrition for cows.

In exactly that situation now. Almost no rain in March. Thunderstorms nearly daily since then. The cows are going into long lush pasture... and eating through it twice as fast as you'd expect just by looking at the grass.
Old timers here are willing to levy considerable criticism at our modern farmers who seem to have forgotten that clover (legumes) grow grass and that high nitrogen rates applied will advantage the grass to the detriment of the clover which is no longer doing the whole job for free.
The website seems to be aimed at cropping situations. But it also needs to make a far better argument if the farmer isn't going to think they could match the benefits by reducing applied nitrogen and increasing the legume content (or putting legumes into a crop rotation).

Added. I've farmed here for 8 years without applying a jot of artificial nitrogen and the farmer who had the place for ten years before me didn't apply nitrogen regularly either. I'm not sure my observations add anything useful though - the farm has clover and grows grass pretty much as you'd expect for the contour (which is the reason I don't use nitrogen the farm is only driveable in high summer it would have to go on by helicopter). I've had visitor after visitor several years back... I counted around 16 of them... viewing the pasture in early spring insisting it was starved and I must kill someone demanding a truck drive over those hills with urea.
My farm doesn't look starved to me. It grows all through summer because this is a high rainfall area and it definitely lacks the rich green-blue colour of the farms it overlooks - but it has a wide range of legumes and other herbs that can't thrive under a regular nitrogen program. And the animal health issues are so minimal they're not worth mentioning, I worked for an older farmer who told me if he applied nitrogen he'd get lame cows, he did, and he did... as every other farm I'd worked on used nitrogen it had never been possible to make the connection between nitrogen-boosted grass and various cow health conditions before then.
One of those farmers who tried to insist that I use nitrogen said "clover doesn't grow over winter". But it does. What's more, it comes into fast growth right when the weather conditions are right for the *grass* to start growing fast and use more of the soil nutrients. Extra fertiliser won't make grass grow without the weather cooperating.
Don't listen to me though the bank don't consider the farm to be productive enough.

Australian soils are basically low in P and S, providing these two elements in the form of Superphosphate over the years has made a lot of country productive. The rationale is that by providing P &S you are feeding the legumes which produce the N for the grasses. There has been a big pull back in using the Super over the last 20 years due to the rising cost however a lot of productive grazing land has gone backwards probably coincided with so many farmers getting out of dairying, they new the importance of having productive pastures and were big users of Super.

Ken

 

[1982vett]

...but then they need dry days to "harden up" the grass for it to become actual good nutrition for cows.

In exactly that situation now. Almost no rain in March. Thunderstorms nearly daily since then. The cows are going into long lush pasture... and eating through it twice as fast as you'd expect just by looking at the grass.
Old timers here are willing to levy considerable criticism at our modern farmers who seem to have forgotten that clover (legumes) grow grass and that high nitrogen rates applied will advantage the grass to the detriment of the clover which is no longer doing the whole job for free.
The website seems to be aimed at cropping situations. But it also needs to make a far better argument if the farmer isn't going to think they could match the benefits by reducing applied nitrogen and increasing the legume content (or putting legumes into a crop rotation).

Added. I've farmed here for 8 years without applying a jot of artificial nitrogen and the farmer who had the place for ten years before me didn't apply nitrogen regularly either. I'm not sure my observations add anything useful though - the farm has clover and grows grass pretty much as you'd expect for the contour (which is the reason I don't use nitrogen the farm is only driveable in high summer it would have to go on by helicopter). I've had visitor after visitor several years back... I counted around 16 of them... viewing the pasture in early spring insisting it was starved and I must kill someone demanding a truck drive over those hills with urea.
My farm doesn't look starved to me. It grows all through summer because this is a high rainfall area and it definitely lacks the rich green-blue colour of the farms it overlooks - but it has a wide range of legumes and other herbs that can't thrive under a regular nitrogen program. And the animal health issues are so minimal they're not worth mentioning, I worked for an older farmer who told me if he applied nitrogen he'd get lame cows, he did, and he did... as every other farm I'd worked on used nitrogen it had never been possible to make the connection between nitrogen-boosted grass and various cow health conditions before then.
One of those farmers who tried to insist that I use nitrogen said "clover doesn't grow over winter". But it does. What's more, it comes into fast growth right when the weather conditions are right for the *grass* to start growing fast and use more of the soil nutrients. Extra fertiliser won't make grass grow without the weather cooperating.
Don't listen to me though the bank don't consider the farm to be productive enough.

AMEN! Preach it...

Our Spring has looked like this

2 Sleet and snow days Jan 24-25 1.6 in
1 Rain day Feb 14, 1.5 in Temps hitting 90F
3 Rain day's March 7,9,11 total 1.5 in. Temps moderating low to mid 80's but had a hard freeze latter partof the month
April...Weather idots have now declared Super La Nina is here. I guess it's because we have had 7 precipitation days in April and several damp days where it rained elsewhere but not here. Cooler temperatures. 49f today at 8AM. .25 in precipitation yesterday and over night to make 5 inches total so far in April. Springtime is blossoming, rainfall totals don't look all that bad, but the ground isn't wet at all. Haven't had muddy conditions for several years.

The fertilizer itch has been strong but I've resisted. Sure fire way to bring on a heatwave and shut the rain off for 1-4 months. Super El Nino, El Nino, La Nina be dammed.

 

[Brute 23]

AMEN! Preach it...

Our Spring has looked like this

2 Sleet and snow days Jan 24-25 1.6 in
1 Rain day Feb 14, 1.5 in Temps hitting 90F
3 Rain day's March 7,9,11 total 1.5 in. Temps moderating low to mid 80's but had a hard freeze latter partof the month
April...Weather idots have now declared Super La Nina is here. I guess it's because we have had 7 precipitation days in April and several damp days where it rained elsewhere but not here. Cooler temperatures. 49f today at 8AM. .25 in precipitation yesterday and over night to make 5 inches total so far in April. Springtime is blossoming, rainfall totals don't look all that bad, but the ground isn't wet at all. Haven't had muddy conditions for several years.

The fertilizer itch has been strong but I've resisted. Sure fire way to bring on a heatwave and shut the rain off for 1-4 months. Super El Nino, El Nino, La Nina be dammed.

Im glad to see Im not the only the one that thinks that way.

Im sitting in a barn watching it rain to remember what its like and be thankful. Thats my Sunday morning.