Luting heifers?

[Black and Good]

I recently purchased three Reg. Black Angus yearling heifers. Two of them are march calves,one is a Feb. calf. I luted them last friday evening 5/10/13. One of the March calves came in on the 15th and was A.I.ed. The other two have not came in yet. Here's my question, Should I lute them again tomorrow 5/20/13 that would be be giving them 10 days, Or just wait too see if they are cylcing. I would think they should be cylcing?? Thanks for the help. B&G :tiphat:

 

[Farmgirl]

Lut them again 10 or 11 days after the first shot. Lut only works if the heifers are cycling and if it has been more than 5 days to 16 days after they have been in heat.

Good luck.

Farmgirl

 

[Black and Good]

Lut them again 10 or 11 days after the first shot. Lut only works if the heifers are cycling and if it has been more than 5 days to 16 days after they have been in heat.

Good luck.

Farmgirl

Went back and looked at their papers, the one that came in was a 3/22/12 calf,the other two are 3/31/12,2/16/12. So the one in the middle age wise came in. Has anyone out there, seen many Black Angus heifers that are over a year and not cycling yet?? BTW, I'm A.I.ing them to "GAR High Design" CE = +16 BW= -3.5

 

[Lucky_P]

Yes. Since we went back to Angus sires, about 7-8 years ago, the majority of Angus-sired heifers - at least those arriving in the Spring breeding/calving season - are rarely cycling by the time I'm ready to breed them, at 15 months. Fall-born calves seem to be cycling a bit earlierl - but they're usually bigger at breeding than the spring-born heifers - and we know that achieving a certain % of mature body weight is more essential to initiating estrus activity than just how old they are..
Slow maturity in these high-percentage Angus spring heifers caused us to abandon any attempts at synchronizing heats for AI, and just watching and breeding on observed heats. Cows here synch fine, but those spring heifers...not.
Came back to Simmental sires on a few of the older SimAngus cows 3-4 years ago, and most of the SM-sired heifers are cycling by 8 months.

As farmgirl said - prostaglandins(lutalyse, estrumate, etc.) will only work if the heifers are cycling. If they haven't yet reached sufficient development to begin regular ovarian activity, no amount of 'lute' is going to 'bring them in'.

 

[Black and Good]

Yes. Since we went back to Angus sires, about 7-8 years ago, the majority of Angus-sired heifers - at least those arriving in the Spring breeding/calving season - are rarely cycling by the time I'm ready to breed them, at 15 months. Fall-born calves seem to be cycling a bit earlierl - but they're usually bigger at breeding than the spring-born heifers - and we know that achieving a certain % of mature body weight is more essential to initiating estrus activity than just how old they are..
Slow maturity in these high-percentage Angus spring heifers caused us to abandon any attempts at synchronizing heats for AI, and just watching and breeding on observed heats. Cows here synch fine, but those spring heifers...not.
Came back to Simmental sires on a few of the older SimAngus cows 3-4 years ago, and most of the SM-sired heifers are cycling by 8 months.

As farmgirl said - prostaglandins(lutalyse, estrumate, etc.) will only work if the heifers are cycling. If they haven't yet reached sufficient development to begin regular ovarian activity, no amount of 'lute' is going to 'bring them in'.

WOW,I would have sure thought that Feb. heifer would be hot by now. I might just wait and watch. :bang:

 

[dun]

WOW,I would have sure thought that Feb. heifer would be hot by now. I might just wait and watch. :bang:

That is the reason for doing a RTS (Repro Tract Score) as yearlings

 

[KNERSIE]

Still..... give them another shot 11 day after the first and observe for 5 days, I'll bet they'll be in heat within 84 hours.

 

[Black and Good]

Still..... give them another shot 11 day after the first and observe for 5 days, I'll bet they'll be in heat within 84 hours.

Thanks thats what I'll try.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Yes. Since we went back to Angus sires, about 7-8 years ago, the majority of Angus-sired heifers - at least those arriving in the Spring breeding/calving season - are rarely cycling by the time I'm ready to breed them, at 15 months. Fall-born calves seem to be cycling a bit earlierl - but they're usually bigger at breeding than the spring-born heifers - and we know that achieving a certain % of mature body weight is more essential to initiating estrus activity than just how old they are..
Slow maturity in these high-percentage Angus spring heifers caused us to abandon any attempts at synchronizing heats for AI, and just watching and breeding on observed heats. Cows here synch fine, but those spring heifers...not.
Came back to Simmental sires on a few of the older SimAngus cows 3-4 years ago, and most of the SM-sired heifers are cycling by 8 months.

Saw some data recently on first heifer heats. Angus were the earliest, and angus crosses were next. What has changed? What percent of your Augus heifers don't cycle during the first breeding season?

 

[Stocker Steve]

That is the reason for doing a RTS (Repro Tract Score) as yearlings

Right now we got some rain - - so I am tempted to let my heifers graze till they are 14 to 15 months. Would a RTS sort be any more value at 12 months?

 

[dun]

That is the reason for doing a RTS (Repro Tract Score) as yearlings

Right now we got some rain - - so I am tempted to let my heifers graze till they are 14 to 15 months. Would a RTS sort be any more value at 12 months?

Could save some feed. We RTS and Pelvic at about year and anything that doesn;t cut the mustard goes somehwere that they will put have mustard on them.

 

[Stocker Steve]

That is the reason for doing a RTS (Repro Tract Score) as yearlings

Right now we got some rain - - so I am tempted to let my heifers graze till they are 14 to 15 months. Would a RTS sort be any more value at 12 months?

Could save some feed. We RTS and Pelvic at about year and anything that doesn;t cut the mustard goes somehwere that they will put have mustard on them.

What % pass RTS at 12 months?

 

[dun]

What % pass RTS at 12 months?

3 would be the absolute minimum but I prefer at least 4. We had one that was cycling but only got a 3 because of lack of cervical tone. At 14 months there was no change.

 

[JustSimmental]

I think I would just wait and see if you can catch them in a natural heat rather than juicing them with Lutalyse again. I prefer Estrumate -- I have a little better luck with that it seems. Also, get ya some patches and apply them to their rump, which will give you a heads up for heat detection --I've had heifers cycle all kind of weird times especially as it warms up in the spring.

Once 21 days have passed, with no estrus, I would put a CIDR in them and give them a 2 ml shot of Cystorellin--- 7 days later Pull the CIDR and 5 mls of Lute or Estrumate.

But one the other opinions above is right --- heifers cycling has more to do with maturity than a specific weight. After you AI those heifers that you bring in with the CIDR protocol give them another 2 mls of Cystorellin --

Also breeding later is better than breeding too early, but if you see a heifer in standing heat at 2 pm and the 12 hour protocol would have you out there at 2 am (which isnt possible for me anyway), you can get her up at 5 pm give her 2 mls of Cystorellin (which will speed things up / shut down heat) then breed her "early" at 8pm. This works well too..........

JS

 

[Lucky_P]

Steve - most of 'em breed - though some that are born at the very tail end of the calving season sometimes don't cycle during the limited breeding season as yearlings; if they're good enough, the farm manager will roll 'em to the next breeding season - making 'em 16-18 months at breeding.
Fairly small numbers of animals, but, by and large, the Angus-sired heifers, out of 3/4 - 15/16 Angus cows(balance Simmental) rarely cycle before w're trying to breed them at 14-15 months - while the Simmental sired heifers, out of SimAngus cows are typically cycling regularly by 8 months.
Have been heavily using Shorthorn sires on the high-percentage Angus cows for the past 3 years or so; only have a handful of breeding age heifers/young cows - and they've bred on time - will have a good crop of SHxAn heifers to breed this fall, if all goes well.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Fairly small numbers of animals, but, by and large, the Angus-sired heifers, out of 3/4 - 15/16 Angus cows(balance Simmental) rarely cycle before w're trying to breed them at 14-15 months - while the Simmental sired heifers, out of SimAngus cows are typically cycling regularly by 8 months.

So the data showing continental breeds cycle later than English breeds is not accurate with modern genetics?

 

[KNERSIE]

Not when the British breeds are now larger framed, later maturing cattle than the Continentals. BUT by and large British breeds reach puberty earlier and are also more fertile than continental breeds.

 

[3waycross]

An independent study by Virginia Tech would seem to dispute that statement here is a chart from that study and below a link to the whole study
Table 3. Sire Breed Group Averages for Yearling Heifer Traits1
Breed Group 400-day weight, lb. Puberty Expressed, % Age at Puberty, days Pregnancy Rate, %
Orig. Hereford-Angus 706 92.2 365 87.9
Curr. Hereford-Angus 747 97.3 366 80.1
Orig. Charolais 744 87.0 393 81.0
Curr. Charolais 781 96.3 361 79.0
Chianina 734 83.8 400 84.0
Gelbvieh 725 87.1 341 87.4
Limousin 717 88.0 391 83.7
Maine Anjou 753 90.6 370 92.8
Salers 763 101.0 365 89.0
Shorthorn 769 95.8 359 89.0
Simmental 749 94.4 360 86.4
1Adapted from Cundiff et al., 1993.

http://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/400/400-803/400-803.html

 

[Stocker Steve]

Original vs. current means there was some hard cull'in or different bloodlines ?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Back when I ran stocker heifers the most fertile thing in the area was angus or simi with a little stein mixed in.
Those dairy cross heifers usually were cycling at about 500#.