Lost a bottle calf, losing confidence

[JosieBlue]

Hello everyone!

I have been reading these boards for quite sometime and have learned so much, so thank you all for sharing so much valuable knowledge, it has been greatly appreciated by this newbie!

I have a few specific questions about bottle calves and would love to hear from you all who raise so many every year. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my bottle calf saga!

About two weeks ago I had 4 beautiful 2 week old calves delivered after a 3 hour trailer ride . I immediately noticed that all appeared to be scouring and my vet devised a treatment plan . The 3 heifers perked up swiftly however the bull calf did not. After running a fecal my vet discovered that the calf had come with toxidia and said we would start another form of treatment on the little guy . I began tubing electrolytes while we waited for the meds to do their work and the bull calf still did not make it.


Before my bull passed I already had two more babies scheduled to be delivered. My two most recent calves (arrived yesterday) have been given a half bottle of milk twice a day and a full bottle of electrolytes middle day. Last night the heifer only drank one half of her milk but took the full half bottle this morning . She refused her electrolytes mid day . She is scouring and I have given both babies a Sustain bolus pill.


I have 5 now had bottle calves and all seem to have arrived with scours. Do all calves get scours after being transported a few hours? How do you handle this situation?

I have read that some folks fill the milk bottle all the way up with water and keep the milk powder the same amount (1/2 bottle for new arrivals) , but I have been strictly giving half bottle, which is better for the calf?

The original 3 heifers have started on some sweet feed and two of them refused the mid day electrolytes when offered, should I be worried or is this common?- these heifers are now nearly 4 weeks old. I noticed one started scouring again last night. All heifers are still being treated for toxidia, as they arrived with the bull calf who passed.

I am feeding an all milk formula that is 20%20%, the good stuff, but it says its medicated? Is this medication necessary ?

I keep both groups in a stall at night and let the first group roam a tiny shaded pasture during the day. The new calves are being quarantined in a stall right now. I have been spreading lime on the dirt floor and spraying bleach water and fly spray throughout, I then top the dirt with pine shavings and some hay for bedding. Does this sound adequate ? I have ordered some "Oxine" disinfectant that will arrive next week. I would be interested in hearing your ideas on keeping a barn tip top clean.

The calves are all Jersey calves. Thanks very much for takin the time to read, because I had utilized my vet right away and thought I had a good bottle calf plan, I just never thought I would lose one of mine. I have since lost confidence in keeping the little guys, even after reading a zillion bottle calf thread on this site!

 

[dun]

If these calves all are from the same place it's a pretty good bet they all of coccidiosis (toxidia). Bleach and water are a good disinfectant on hard surfaces, not so much on soft stuff.

 

[JosieBlue]

Yes, they have all come from the same place. Is like the best bet for the keeping the ground clean?

 

[dun]

When we raised large numbers of bottle calves we used 4x8 movable hutches and moved them between calves. It was a couple of monthsuntil we reused the same spot. The hutches were washed down inside and out with bleach/water mix. We also insured that each calf got the same bottle and nipple each time and every couple of feedings washed the bottles and nipples with bleach/water.

 

[regolith]

If these calves all are from the same place it's a pretty good bet they all of coccidiosis (toxidia). Bleach and water are a good disinfectant on hard surfaces, not so much on soft stuff.

If it's coccidiosis then treating every calf on arrival should go a long way towards resolving the issue. It's a single oral drench - ask your vet.

I don't put much faith in disinfectants myself, and that may be part of the reason why. Most are de-activated in the presence of organic matter, such as soft bedding. We're advised by the 'experts' to disinfect weekly, can't say I do it that often.

Trying to raise bottle calves on milk powder after travelling is one of the hardest things to achieve in cattle farming, even with experience things can go wrong. Transport, diet change... it all causes stress. Which lowers their immune system and can precipitate scours and other ailments.
Should give a bottle of electrolyte on arrival, check for any that look sick and do whatever treatments are necessary and let them rest in a clean pen till morning - start milk feeding then, with a small feed, as they start thriving over the next 2 - 3 days the milk can be increased and other feeds offered.
Mix the milk powder at the recommended rate - don't add extra water or reduce the water unless you're very experienced.

Ask your vet about feeding. I'd be inclined to suggest that a half bottle of milk twice daily is not enough - even for Jersey calves - and that at this stage they shouldn't need the electrolyte supplement but should have clean water available as they want it. That regime - small milk feeds supplemented by electrolytes - is ideal for the few days the calves are at risk of dehydration or recovering from scours.

 

[Nesikep]

Popular opinion on bottle calves and milk is to avoid soy based milk replacer at all costs.. might want to check that out too.

 

[JosieBlue]

When we raised large numbers of bottle calves we used 4x8 movable hutches and moved them between calves. It was a couple of monthsuntil we reused the same spot. The hutches were washed down inside and out with bleach/water mix. We also insured that each calf got the same bottle and nipple each time and every couple of feedings washed the bottles and nipples with bleach/water.

Thanks Dun! The hutches sound interesting for sure, will look into them. Right now I have a huge old barn full of mostly empty stalls so I'm just gonna try keep it super clean. I like your idea of keeping each calf with the same nipple, I am marking them right now! I have actually been using a dishwasher to clean the bottles with bleach.

 

[JosieBlue]

If these calves all are from the same place it's a pretty good bet they all of coccidiosis (toxidia). Bleach and water are a good disinfectant on hard surfaces, not so much on soft stuff.

If it's coccidiosis then treating every calf on arrival should go a long way towards resolving the issue. It's a single oral drench - ask your vet.

I don't put much faith in disinfectants myself, and that may be part of the reason why. Most are de-activated in the presence of organic matter, such as soft bedding. We're advised by the 'experts' to disinfect weekly, can't say I do it that often.

Trying to raise bottle calves on milk powder after travelling is one of the hardest things to achieve in cattle farming, even with experience things can go wrong. Transport, diet change... it all causes stress. Which lowers their immune system and can precipitate scours and other ailments.
Should give a bottle of electrolyte on arrival, check for any that look sick and do whatever treatments are necessary and let them rest in a clean pen till morning - start milk feeding then, with a small feed, as they start thriving over the next 2 - 3 days the milk can be increased and other feeds offered.
Mix the milk powder at the recommended rate - don't add extra water or reduce the water unless you're very experienced.

Ask your vet about feeding. I'd be inclined to suggest that a half bottle of milk twice daily is not enough - even for Jersey calves - and that at this stage they shouldn't need the electrolyte supplement but should have clean water available as they want it. That regime - small milk feeds supplemented by electrolytes - is ideal for the few days the calves are at risk of dehydration or recovering from scours.

Thank you! The vet gave a 10 day oral medicine for the first calves and I will see about getting something for the two newest. I have been giving the month old calves a full bottle and just put the new calves on a half bottle for now. I guess I will take the older calves off the electrolytes , as they do drink water freely and they have been munching sweet feed as well.

The new heifer is still scouring and I had to tube the majority of her milk this eve. I gave her the sustain 111 bolus yesterday, how long does it take for that medicine to kick in? She is due for the second dose tomorrow.

 

[JosieBlue]

Popular opinion on bottle calves and milk is to avoid soy based milk replacer at all costs.. might want to check that out too.

I have a non soy based 20-20 milk, but it is medicated, is that normal for high quality milk?

 

[Nesikep]

the medication is probably to help prevent scours... I can't say if it's 'normal' though, it's been 20 years since I've had a bottle calf.

 

[JosieBlue]

Thanks everyone for your input, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[tom4018]

We bought a lot of bottle calves years ago but have went to buying light weight feeders, so about the only babies we raise is if a cow has twins now, so I am going off my fading memory.

We battled for a couple weeks. Had good luck on some with a gelling electrolyte like Revitilyte-Gelling Oral Electrolyte, we used Deliver more but it is not available now. I think if one is scouring bad the gelling electrolyte just helps them retain some fluid and meds so they don't get so dehydrated.
Tube feed one for 2 weeks once. Some people has used Nuflor for scours, you may ask our vet about that.
If we have one that seem to lack appetite we use some Probios to try and get some good bugs in them.

On the same line as Regolith is mentioning the milk feedings, make sure you are feeding the amount the milk calls for. On some problem calves we fed several small feedings per day, for instance 4 half bottles instead of 2 full bottles.

 

[backhoeboogie]

A nurse cow is your best bet if you are going to raise bottle calves.

If you are using a quality milk replacer, you can almost bet they came to you sick.

Yes calves in a herd nursing their natural dam get scours. Sometimes a severe case.

Someone mentioned nuflour already. It is a good remedy for a lot of things, including scours.

For the calf that is not nursing mid day, get an old towel and rub it down. Rub it hard. You are simulating a cow bathing a calf with a rough tongue. Rub the heck out of the calf and generally they will get invigorated. Then they will want to nurse.

I am not a vet. I need to see the calves, work with them some, treat them, see their response to treatment, see their response to things like rub downs. Sometimes I get some that I have to force feed. I am more stubborn than they are. Have never used a tube kit even tho I have one.

I would only give electrolyte if they had to have it. Milk replacer twice a day, the good stuff. A full half gallon at each feeding. Water in the bottle if they want more.

There's much to say. You deal with enough of them you will find that each case is unique. I don't feel there is a one size that fits all.

I haven't had much luck with vets in this area. I usually get the call when the vet has given up.

 

[1wlimo]

as the other have said cleanliness is key to their pen, and feeding tools etc. When using a barn with concrete floor we used to put into each pen soil from a clean source (ie field with no cattle) to provide pro-biotic effect.

 

[JosieBlue]

I believe the vet gave her nuflor 3 days ago , would another dose help? I will do the towel rub down on her tomorrow- that sounds like a good trick that I have not yet tried.

Yes. The vet also said that they all came to me sick. This was further proven when I bought my first calf from a different source and she looks and acts completely different. She is frisky with a dry tail - even the cows I have had for 3 weeks , who no longer have scours and are looking a zillion times better than they used to don't look as good as this new calf!

I did buy a nurse cow and the new calf is on her , but I am afraid to transition the other calves to her now that I finally have 4 out of 5 of them looking pretty healthy. If I did try and switch them over to real milk via bottle, how long of a transition period would be needed and is it worth he risk of upsetting their tummy?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[backhoeboogie]

I did buy a nurse cow and the new calf is on her , but I am afraid to transition the other calves to her now that I finally have 4 out of 5 of them looking pretty healthy. If I did try and switch them over to real milk via bottle, how long of a transition period would be needed and is it worth he risk of upsetting their tummy?

Thanks again everyone!

I generally have a few calves ready when the cow is about to calve. Some have been bottle fed for a week or so. I crate the cow after two days of her calf getting colostrum. With the bottle calves hungry I crowd them to the cow and let her calf in too. I have not had issues with transition. But use quality milk replacer.

Usually after the calves have nursed the cow three days or so they have her scent. She accepts them without a crate.