Lost a 2nd newborn

[ClinchValley86]

This morning I found a dead calf from a heifer. It was small. Thr momma was gigantic in the midsection. I assume it had smothered, unless it was a stillborn situation. I tried tearing the sack to get a look inside and had to get my knife out to cut it open. Is it normal for the sack to be so thick/tough to tear? Calfs eyes were closed as was the mouth, not sure if that tell ya anything or not.

Hard telling what happened i suppose. Just wanted to inquire on the toughness of the sack the calf is contained in.

 

[simme]

Looks like all the sac intact and still attached to the afterbirth. Was the cow there when you found the calf? Looks like it had no chance. I have seen cows appearing to struggle to break the sac sometime. And intervening and finding that I needed to use a pocket knife to break it because it was so tough. But most are pretty weak and tear easily or during birth. Not sure what the factors are that determine how tough it is. Who knows what happens when we are not there to see things.

Might there be a twin in there? Some twins have separate placentas and some shared.

 

[Warren Allison]

Was it time, or was it still early for it to be born? I have never seen it like this in a cow, but this is what happens if you let pregnant mares eat fescue.

 

[wbvs58]

Looks more like an aborted foetus than a full term calf.

Ken

 

[ClinchValley86]

Was it time, or was it still early for it to be born? I have never seen it like this in a cow, but this is what happens if you let pregnant mares eat fescue.

She was on time. They've def been eating fescue.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Looks more like an aborted foetus than a full term calf.

Ken

Calf was around 40 or so pounds And covered with hair. Scrawny little thing.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Looks like all the sac intact and still attached to the afterbirth. Was the cow there when you found the calf? Looks like it had no chance. I have seen cows appearing to struggle to break the sac sometime. And intervening and finding that I needed to use a pocket knife to break it because it was so tough. But most are pretty weak and tear easily or during birth. Not sure what the factors are that determine how tough it is. Who knows what happens when we are not there to see things.

Might there be a twin in there? Some twins have separate placentas and some shared.

Yes. The momma is pretty torn up over losing her calf. I left her access wirh it for the day so maybe shed grt some closure over the deal. Not sure if thats even a thing or not.

 

[Nick Wagner]

Many years ago, had a cow lost her calf just as they were being trucked to summer pasture, so loaded her up. Upon arrival, she went looking for her calf. She traveled miles, crossed US 20, a busy four lane highway, four times looking for her dead calf. I learned to let them grieve.

 

[coachg]

Not a vet but I think there’s a condition/ disease ; something where the amniotic sac is too thick/ tough . Anyone ever heard of this or am I thinking horses ?

 

[wbvs58]

Yes. The momma is pretty torn up over losing her calf. I left her access wirh it for the day so maybe shed grt some closure over the deal. Not sure if thats even a thing or not.

I will leave a dead calf out until the mother finally walks away from it sometimes several days then sneak it away. Even then they will often come back to where it was and look around.

Ken

 

[Warren Allison]

Not a vet but I think there’s a condition/ disease ; something where the amniotic sac is too thick/ tough . Anyone ever heard of this or am I thinking horses ?

In horses, yes. Fescue ..or rather the endophytes found in fescue....will cause mares to have placenta so thick and tough, you have to have a razor knife to cut it open and get the foal out. And if you do, chances are she won't have milk. I don't know if it affects other species that way. I was surprised to see when I first got on CT, that people with fescue did not want cows from areas that didn't have it, but I don't know why, exactly. Something about how the endophytes affect cattle, too.

 

[gcreekrch]

Do you vaccinate for anything?

 

[jltrent]

If you set 24 hours a day with these cows you will lose some. It is part of cattle farming, and you better have thick skin to do it. I have lost a lot through the years and think if I had done this different or that maybe that would not have happened. Never count your chickens before they hatch. I am setting here right now thinking I need/should be doing something to help these cows/calves. Cattle farming is not like an 8 to 4 job and then go home.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Do you vaccinate for anything?

I hit heifers with an 8 to 10 way blackleg type, an IBR type, And a lepto. Thats it tho. And I only do it around weaning age plus booster if needed. Then no more pokes unless one looks wormy.

You think this was something a vaccine could have prevented?

These calving heifers this year are all sired the same. All have had tiny calves. Im glad I only used their sire one year. Built nice, but their calves come tiny. I really dont think ots from the Franchise bull side of things. His calves are usually decent/good size.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Many years ago, had a cow lost her calf just as they were being trucked to summer pasture, so loaded her up. Upon arrival, she went looking for her calf. She traveled miles, crossed US 20, a busy four lane highway, four times looking for her dead calf. I learned to let them grieve.

Dang!!!!!

 

[ClinchValley86]

If you set 24 hours a day with these cows you will lose some. It is part of cattle farming, and you better have thick skin to do it. I have lost a lot through the years and think if I had done this different or that maybe that would not have happened. Never count your chickens before they hatch. I am setting here right now thinking I need/should be doing something to help these cows/calves. Cattle farming is not like an 8 to 4 job and then go home.

She was my favorite of the bunch. Seems its always my favorite that has a complication. Lol. I had been watching her pretty closely too. Ws pouring rain that night and morning so I didnt check her like I should have. At this point, I dont think it would have mattered. I suspect calf was dead. It was awful thin.

 

[gcreekrch]

I hit heifers with an 8 to 10 way blackleg type, an IBR type, And a lepto. Thats it tho. And I only do it around weaning age plus booster if needed. Then no more pokes unless one looks wormy.

You think this was something a vaccine could have prevented?

These calving heifers this year are all sired the same. All have had tiny calves. Im glad I only used their sire one year. Built nice, but their calves come tiny. I really dont think ots from the Franchise bull side of things. His calves are usually decent/good size.

We use a MLV religiously pre breeding and those issues are pretty much non existent. We do have issue here with Neospora which normally causes abortions earlier in pregnancy. You might want to take a blood sample from this cow and see what if anything comes up.

 

[mwj]

Were these heifers natural service or AI? What were there gestation length? Sometimes that low birth weight is from shorter gestation.

 

[farmerjan]

For all the ones that have had tiny calves, we just sold a nice bull that was easy calving... his calves were small, real small... vigorous... but they did not grow like they needed to. Have had several other easy calving bulls that the calves were not this small, and grew better... It was definitely the bull... and he got sold. Super disposition and not a bully in the bull lot or anything... weighed 2050 when sold... so no little shrimp... he just did not put very big calves on the ground and they just did not have the growth that was shown on his papers... Happens.

 

[simme]

Seems like a clue is the calf being very thin. I have had short gestation calves before. Since most calves here are AI sired and my operation is small and just outside the front door, I generally know the exact breeding date and gestation length. The short gestation calves here have never been thin and have been vigorous, just smaller.

I tend to think that an occasional thin calf is due to a problem with the placenta and blood supply to the calf. The calf in the womb does not get enough nutrition from the cow for some reason. If there are lots of thin calves, I would wonder about the overall nutrition of the cows including minerals. Seems like I have read that mineral issues can cause an abnormal placenta. Beyond that, maybe an infection (maybe viral) in the cow. Lots of possibilities.

My limited experience is that birth weight and weaning weight are not as correlated as some seem to think. For sure, I have had low birth weight calves with higher weaning weights than herd average and high birth weight calves with lower weaning weights than average. Most of my cows milk very well.