Learning to AI

[El_Putzo]

Anybody know a good link to an explanation of AI procedures and practices? I'd like to learn and will probably take a class sometime (unless I can get an old pro like Dun, to drive up here and teach me).

Dun, for some reason you have got me thinking about AIing my Hereford heifers this spring. I've found an awful lot of great sires that I could use for about $20 per straw.

So..... somebody give me the lowdown. I want to know every detail I need to know about AI.

Also, what is a certificate as in the ones you purchase with semen? Is that just to certify that the semen is out of a certain bull? Is it necessary to have a certificate if you register the calves?

 

[jkwilson]

The certificate allows you to register the calf. Nasco has videos and a book "The Artificial Insemination and Embryo Transfer of Dairy and Beef Cattle" which are helpful, but nothing is a replacement for hands on with a good teacher at one of the AI schools that some of the semen suppliers like ABS offer. There is significant expense in equipment for the tank and nitrogen filling service, and if you are ordering small quantities, you will pay through the nose for shipping.
But there's also a significant expense in keeping a bull.

 

[El_Putzo]

Well, I'm hoping on the tank, I can convince either my wife's uncle (lives next door to me) or my old neighbor (lives next door to my dad and cows) to let me rent out a spot in their tanks. I also plan on talking to both of them about the possibility of teaching me.

My wife's uncle has several hundred cows of his own and is pretty busy, so I doubt he'd want to drive down to my dad's place at the drop of a hat to AI my cows for me although I do think I could talk him into letting me rent a spot in one of his tanks.

My old neighbor is a hunting buddy and closer to my age. They have dairy cows and he does all the AI work for them. Plus he is only a mile from my cows. I'd say if I could get them sync'd to come in on a given saturday or sunday, he'd come over and give me a lesson.

I think either one would let me order semen when they do to cut back on shipping maybe for both of us.

 

[sidney411]

If you could get with one of these gentlemen it would be a lot better then what anyone can offer you over the internet. Hands on training is the best. Why don't you ask your buddy if you could come help him AI some of his cattle first, that way you wil have an idea of what's going on and why. Just a thought.

 

[El_Putzo]

That's kinda what I was thinking. I have a call in to him right now. He has his FFL and has ordered some hunting supplies in for me. I will be going to pick them up tonight. I'll grill him about it then.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Just info for the record...lol.

Some "procedures" and other "hands on" jobs cannot be learned properly or competently by just reading a book, looking at video, or taking a college lecture course.

Some items that must be learned and apprenticed via "hands on" instruction (from a competent "master" or a college or workshop course which includes significant lab work and practice) include:

A.I.
Farrier Work
Starting Horses
Branding
Vaccination

list goes on and on...

One can learn how to be a bookkeeper over the internet or via correspondence course; however, anything involving "hands on" manipulation of animals or objects definitely requires an OJT experience with a competent teacher...

just some thoughts... lol

 

[dun]

Anybody know a good link to an explanation of AI procedures and practices? I'd like to learn and will probably take a class sometime (unless I can get an old pro like Dun, to drive up here and teach me).

Dun, for some reason you have got me thinking about AIing my Hereford heifers this spring. I've found an awful lot of great sires that I could use for about $20 per straw.

So..... somebody give me the lowdown. I want to know every detail I need to know about AI.

Also, what is a certificate as in the ones you purchase with semen? Is that just to certify that the semen is out of a certain bull? Is it necessary to have a certificate if you register the calves?

I did look at a map to see how far away you are. Most of the dairys get their semen from one of the AI studs that make a regular route and fill tanks and deliver semen at the same time. Find out who he gets his semen from and get ahold of their beef semen catalog. ABS had a bull that I really liked, and true to form he's no longer availabel. SBut we did use two of their others last year, calves will start dropping in a couple of weeks. One we used year before last on a couple of cows and got some really dany calves. One of them is the black baldy heifer on another thread. We also used one from Select Sires, the Genex bulls just didn't light my fire. But as in all else, that's for our particular situation.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

I just had a chat with my neighbor, Rodney. He is going to give me the short version of the lecture tonight when I go to pick up my hunting stuff. Then sometime in the next month or two, he is going to call me when he does a few of his and let me come and watch. He even offered to do my heifers the first time. Rodney gets his semen through Select Sires who runs route to refill his tank every 6-8 weeks.

Thanks for the advice Bill, just to let you know, I was born and raised on a farm and I do know that some things require OJT. Thanks for your concern. Tasks in this world that require experience are not limited to farming.

 

[dun]

Here's the link to Select Sires, you might as well start looking at bulls today. If you're weahter isn't any better then ours that's about the best way to wile away a few hours.

http://www.selectsires.com/

dun

 

[txag]

if you're looking to a.i. them to a hereford bull, check out http://www.reedent.com

 

[El_Putzo]

Thanks, Dun and Txag.

I have looked at both sites and am thinking about going with VPI Limited Edition or KT Top Secret. Any opinions on either of those?

Also, I talked with my neighbor for several hours last night and he is going to teach me and help me with my 4. I am trying to figure out if it is worth the hassle to try to synchronize them. Rodney says he has been using "sidurs" to get his sync'd at the suggestion of our local vet. Any favorite practices for synchronizing?

 

[dun]

CIDRS are the latest silver bullet of the synch fraternity. From the several herds I've seen around here that have used them they didn't provide any btter concetion rate when using timed AI then any other method. My preference is not to synch them. If any don;t settle from the first synching, and you breed them again on their next regular cycle you've still got calves over the same time span as if you let them come in naturally and breed them on observed heats. And with natural heats you don;t have the problem with sub-fertile heats that sometimes happens with synching. If the heifer has been cycling regualrly there isn;t any reason you shouldn't get at least 85% or higher, really closer to 90-100% first service conceptions. The only time we use any of the hormone stuff is to jump start one to get her moed up if she happened to be a late calver.
Last year we calved quite a few hefiers and they were all bred within a two week period. The last one bred calved first, 10 days early, the first one bred calved 15 days late. So for me that pretty well shoots down the theory of synching tightening up your calving season with heifers. Two that we bred the same evening calved 10 days apart and both bred to the same bull, both with bull calves. All of them settled to their first service also.
But, whatever works for you and your neighbor.

dun

 

[dun]

As to the bull question, we used Limited Edition on one cow this year but she's not due to early April.
We did use a lot of Feltons Domino 774 from ABS also KCF Bennett 517 H119. I've seen his calves and I really like them, but I wouldn't use him on heifers. But I'm ultra conservative when it comes to calving ease, particulary with heifers. The black baldy heifer picture I posted somewhere is by him out of that sorry looking old black cow.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Dun,

What kind of time table do you use when you AI breed? I mean, I'm sure you don't sit out there and stare at your cattle all day waiting for them to come in. My calves are at my dad's place so he feeds them a little grain and some hay every morning and I could get him to check them in the evening too. It seems to me that timing is everything in this situation.

As I said, Rodney is a dairy farmer and he sees his cattle twice a day whether he wants to or not and he says his success rate on first services is probably between 60% and 70%. You said I should be able get as good as 85% bred first service, so what's the trick to catching them at the right time?

 

[dun]

First off, comception rates in dairys frequently aren't as high as in beef herds. Dairy cows a re typically pushed pretty hard and with the money that a heifer is worth, it seems that people just keep heifers that should go down the road becasue of poor fertility in their mothers.
OK, off my soap box.
I heat detect for a minimum of 1/2 an hour first thing in the morning and again late in the evening. An hour is maybe better, but I can't remember the last time that I saw someone in heat in the last half hour that I hadn't seen in the first 10-15 minutes.
You could also use Kamars or one of the heat detection devices that glues on the tail head and shows if they've been ridden. We tried a bunch of different things when I didn't have time to actaully watch and the one that worked as well as any other and was a bunch cheaper was a paint stick.
I also keep a chart of when who is in heat and when they're bred. Makes it much easier to know who and when to keep an eye on.

http://www.leblink.com/~dunmovin/heat-chart.htm

dun

 

[Bernard]

. . . the one that worked as well as any other and was a bunch cheaper was a paint stick. - dun

The "paint stick"?

 

[polledbull]

The absoulute best method of heat detection is with the electronic HeatWatch system . It is far superior to any other method we have ever used. It is the best money we ever spent on my farm .

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Heat Watch is an excellent program, but who can afford it?? not me :shock: You need numbers to justify the cost IMO.

I use the paint sticks (crayon markers) also. Cheap works for me! But, I can touch most of my cattle to scratch their butts & mark them. Most of the others, if I catch them laying down, I can get them marked. Some, there is no way to mark them except in the chute. Genex now has a new stick on patch. I was give a sample of 5 of them. I was VERY skeptical because they are like stick-on labels. Just peal them off & stick them on. They are like a "scratch" game. Has silver color over a bright pink or red or other color. When cow is mounted, the silver gets "scratched" off with each mount, until the whole patch is bright colored. Really does stick & really does work. Lots easier to apply than the K-Mar patches. I always got glue all over ME. Cost about the same - about $1 each.

But remember - all of these are just TOOLS - nothing replaces SEEING activity. But, you can reimforce what you see with the tools. Sometimes, you might miss the mounting activity, but you can see discharge or ruffled tail head PLUS the tool of the crayon or patch.

I do not like the CIDR's. They deffinately will bring a cow into STANDING heat, but she may be ovulating a sub-fertile egg. That means you are wasting time & money on a poor heat and will be re-breeding on her next cycle. They are best used on a poor breeding cow to get her hormones working, and generally you are looking at her settling on the natural heat following the CIDR heat. Of course, this is just my opinion. I've used them & have had others use them. Same experience.

I much prefer natural heats. And like Dun said, I keep track of their natural heats prior to breeding season, so I know when to expect one to cycle (heifers & cows).

 

[polledbull]

Heat Watch is an excellent program, but who can afford it?? not me :shock: You need numbers to justify the cost IMO.

I use the paint sticks (crayon markers) also. Cheap works for me! But, I can touch most of my cattle to scratch their butts & mark them. Most of the others, if I catch them laying down, I can get them marked. Some, there is no way to mark them except in the chute. Genex now has a new stick on patch. I was give a sample of 5 of them. I was VERY skeptical because they are like stick-on labels. Just peal them off & stick them on. They are like a "scratch" game. Has silver color over a bright pink or red or other color. When cow is mounted, the silver gets "scratched" off with each mount, until the whole patch is bright colored. Really does stick & really does work. Lots easier to apply than the K-Mar patches. I always got glue all over ME. Cost about the same - about $1 each.

But remember - all of these are just TOOLS - nothing replaces SEEING activity. But, you can reimforce what you see with the tools. Sometimes, you might miss the mounting activity, but you can see discharge or ruffled tail head PLUS the tool of the crayon or patch.

I do not like the CIDR's. They deffinately will bring a cow into STANDING heat, but she may be ovulating a sub-fertile egg. That means you are wasting time & money on a poor heat and will be re-breeding on her next cycle. They are best used on a poor breeding cow to get her hormones working, and generally you are looking at her settling on the natural heat following the CIDR heat. Of course, this is just my opinion. I've used them & have had others use them. Same experience.

I much prefer natural heats. And like Dun said, I keep track of their natural heats prior to breeding season, so I know when to expect one to cycle (heifers & cows).

After buying my HeatWatch system , I relized I couldnt afford not to have it . It payed for itself in the first year . It increased our conception atleast 20% or more . It only takes a extra couple of good heifers off a particluar mating or one really good bull calf that you might have not gotten had you not had the system to pay for the system. I dont spend half my time looking for heats on cows that are staring at me while I stare at them. We were only AI'ing 20 cows when I bout it so I dont go along with the idea that you need alot of numbers to make it justify itself . In fact I sell more to people with a job in town that only have 10 cows than to large producers. I havent sold one yet what the producer said he wished now that he had bought it years earlier. It just simply makes the total AI system much more simple and time effective for most cattlemen .For more information about HeatWatch contact me .

 

[Hutch]

Dun, What time frame do you use to breed the cow after seeing standing heat?