Johnes?

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Rustler9

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Here's a situation for any of you who might know something about Johnes disease. I am a little familiar with it but probably not enough. My neighbor has a first calf beef heifer (she's probably coming three) that started loosing weight back about two months ago. He had the vet come out and check her and the vet said that she may have Johnes, we'll do some tests on her and send them off. He gave some vitamin shots and some antibiotics and also some pills (I'm not sure what they were) as well as some probiotics. The heifer had weaned a pretty nice calf, she was a good milker. She began to loose weight pretty fast, had a real foul smelling diarreah (sp?), had a listless look about her, would not eat. After he gave her the shots and pills (probably about three weeks of treatment, shots for three to five days and pills each day) she began to get her appetite back and started to gain her weight back, her manure thickened up and started to look normal. She is now not completely back to her normal weight but doesn't look bad, she will be back to her normal weight in another three weeks or so.

The neighbor just called me and told me that after all of this time the vet has called and told him that the heifer has Johnes. Everything that I have read about it says that they get weak and continue to loose weight, they literally starve themselves to death even though they have a good appetite. What do ya'll think about this? Have any of you ever had Johnes in your cattle? From what I've read, there's nothing about the cow recovering and gaining the weight back. The neighbor thinks that he may have to put the cow down but my advice was to have the vet do fecal and blood tests again to be sure. I wouldn't want to risk passing it onto my other cattle but I would want or be sure that the diagnosis is correct before I put her down. To me the symptoms don't really go with the disease. I didn't think that a cow would bounce back after getting so sick if it's truly Johnes. Even the vet said so. I wonder if maybe the lab got the samples mixed up with someone else's? What would you do if this were your cow? He asked me and I don't know-I 'm sure I would retest her. I've seen the cow and how sick she was, and also how much she has recovered. Anybody else ever had this type of thing to happen?
 
Roger,
I agree with your end assessment. If she is a good cow,not to old and drops a good calf. ..do the tests. If not I would ship her.
 
According to everything I've read about Johnes Disease, they never have a lack of appetite - they simply cannot get enough food to overcome the disease. But, according to an article (I cannot remember if it was the Western Farmer or the High Plains Journal), there is now a vaccination available for Johnes Disease - I'm just not sure of the availability. Here is a link for information about Johnes Disease from the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine.

http://WWW.Johnes.Org
 
Rustler, IMHO I'd have the cow re-tested and go from there. If the test came back positive again then I'd cull her from the herd.

Katherine
 
No, that's incorrect. Johnes cows frequently seem to "get better".. but they'll relapse and lose the weight again. Get rid of her. She's potentially infecting everything on your place.
 
TennCattleMan57":3ghm52eh said:
Is johnnes then some kind of like chronic wasting disease?

As I understand it, Chronic Wasting Disease in elk and deer is basically the same thing as Johnes Disease - just a different name.
 
msscamp":9ifcpo1j said:
TennCattleMan57":9ifcpo1j said:
Is johnnes then some kind of like chronic wasting disease?

As I understand it, Chronic Wasting Disease in elk and deer is basically the same thing as Johnes Disease - just a different name.

CWD is a prion disease, somewhat sismilar to BSE and CJD.

Johnnes is a "Thickening" of the gut (intestine) making it unable to
digest feed. Perpetuated and spread by a bacteria in the feces.

GET RID OF ANY CATTLE BELIEVED TO BE POSITIVE FOR JOHNNES!

YOU MIGHT INFECT YOUR WHOLE HERD! OR, SOMEONE ELSES!
 
A cow can have Johne's disease for four years before symptons and can then pass it on to their young. There in no cure.
Their has been studies done on the similarities between it and Crohn's disease in humans.
bif
Very good info on Johne's here and they have a new rapid test>
http://www.johnes.org/
 
Under great management conditions, a cow can have Johnes D and NEVER show signs. It usually shows it's nasty head, when the animal is STRESSED. That's why it usually shows up when they have their first calf. This is VERY stressfull on the animal. And, yes, when the stress is reduced, the symptoms CAN go away - temperarilly. But, ALL the time, she is spreading the disease thru her manure.
Granted, it is unusual for them to lose their appetite, but, when they start going downhill, they often get secondary illnesses that could cause them to quit eating.
IMO, I would NEVER take an extra day of infecting my place. You already had one report saying she's positive. The tests CAN show false negatives, but not false POSITIVES.
The best test is the fecal test and it takes weeks, maybe months (right now the test labs are so backed up in our area).

The vaccine is for PREVENTION. And, if used, your cattle would always test positive - it is not recommended. The animal cannot be CURED.
 
From what I have read Johne's is almost always fatal, but animals can live 1 month to 2 years. It involves calfhood exposure with no evidence of infection for 6 to 18 months. and I have read that some infected animals fail to react to the test and should be tested again in 3 to 6 months.
 
MikeC":3d3z7sh2 said:
msscamp":3d3z7sh2 said:
TennCattleMan57":3d3z7sh2 said:
Is johnnes then some kind of like chronic wasting disease?

As I understand it, Chronic Wasting Disease in elk and deer is basically the same thing as Johnes Disease - just a different name.

CWD is a prion disease, somewhat sismilar to BSE and CJD.

Johnnes is a "Thickening" of the gut (intestine) making it unable to
digest feed. Perpetuated and spread by a bacteria in the feces.

Thanks, Mike!
 
taranr2002":vycvx0f4 said:
From what I have read Johne's is almost always fatal, but animals can live 1 month to 2 years. It involves calfhood exposure with no evidence of infection for 6 to 18 months. and I have read that some infected animals fail to react to the test and should be tested again in 3 to 6 months.
No, cattle can be carriers and live for long time, never showing signs. The blood & fecal test CAN produce false negatives - several times. But, positive is a definate.
 

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