Alright, I get the whole "paying for the name" thing, but holy buckets!! I bought a 5 liter bottle of Ivermectin solution today. Bought the same brand the last couple years, it works well. On the shelf, there were 3 brands of pour-on. Brands 1 and 2 (Ivomec and Dectomax if I recall) were approximately $300.00 per 5L bottle. The bottle I bought (Aspen) was the same medicine, same strength (5mg per ML), and fought the same creepy crawlers (I read the labels). But, the cost was $66.00. I could see a price difference due to brands, but this huge price difference makes me wonder what I am missing. I asked the store, as I did last year, and got no answer. Any thoughts??
ivermectin cost
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chippie
Well-known member
It is an imported generic product.
greybeard
Well-known member
Aspen Vetinary is a wholly owned subsidiary of Lextron Animal Services/Animal Health International, a big conglomerate that has buying power regarding generics. The Aspen ivermectin is made in the UK/Northern Ireland.
Here, you can read everything about them on their label:
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/dr ... m?id=18685
It's a lot like buying Eraser or TSC brand glyphosate instead of Roundup brand.
Here, you can read everything about them on their label:
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/dr ... m?id=18685
It's a lot like buying Eraser or TSC brand glyphosate instead of Roundup brand.
FFF21
Member
That's quite a savings! What time of year do you usually worm your cows?
kenny thomas
Well-known member
You are getting just what you pay for. The generic only kills what is ready to be killed at that moment. The good stuff kills for as much as 21 days and is also oil based so rain does not wash it off. I use 4 or 5- 5 liter bottles of cydectin a year and will never go back to the cheap stuff.
BC
Well-known member
Here is a link to a video on parasite control by Dr. Thomas Yazwinski of the University of Arkansas. Dr.Yazwinski has probably done more research and comparison of wormers than anybody in the US. The video of his presentation takes a little over 30 minutes but has some information about the generics.
http://vimeo.com/11107393
http://vimeo.com/11107393
Lucky_P
Well-known member
hi, folks.
Was gonna link Dr. Yazwinski's video - but see that's already been done; good job, BC.
His research group is the only one I'm aware of in recent history that's administering these wormers and then sacrificing & necropsying those animals to see if they actually killed the worms. It was eye-opening to me to see that with some of the wormers, egg counts went to zero, but the worms were still there, alive and well, and continuing to impact animal performance.
I had Dr. Y up to Louisville to make presentations in the Food Animal section at the KY VMA meeting a week or so back - his message was well-received.
He's not the first parasitologist to tell me that the generics just don't perform. Yes, by law, they have to contain the same concentration of whatever drug is in the 'pioneer' product, but far too many of them just do not perform like the name-brand.
I'm like everybody else - I want to get the cheapest price I can. But, if you only pay half as much for a generic - and it doesn't work - have you really saved any $$$?
I don't buy generic dewormers anymore.
Tom, I was uneasy about the pour-on formulations from the time they came on the market - and never used any of them. Work by Yazwinski and others have pretty well convinced me that despite their ease of application, most of the dewormer doesn't get to where it needs to be to kill worms...(what was his finding - 30% gets to the target?) and most of what does get to the target gets there from cattle licking it off themselves and herdmates - not from absorption through the skin. Again, why waste time and $$$ on pour-on 'dewormers', if they're not going to kill the worms? I won't use 'em.
One more thing...weigh or tape your animals. Too many of us try to 'eyeball' 'em and dose accordingly. We're usually wrong, and end up under-dosing - so we don't get effective killing, and contribute to increasing incidence of resistance.
Was gonna link Dr. Yazwinski's video - but see that's already been done; good job, BC.
His research group is the only one I'm aware of in recent history that's administering these wormers and then sacrificing & necropsying those animals to see if they actually killed the worms. It was eye-opening to me to see that with some of the wormers, egg counts went to zero, but the worms were still there, alive and well, and continuing to impact animal performance.
I had Dr. Y up to Louisville to make presentations in the Food Animal section at the KY VMA meeting a week or so back - his message was well-received.
He's not the first parasitologist to tell me that the generics just don't perform. Yes, by law, they have to contain the same concentration of whatever drug is in the 'pioneer' product, but far too many of them just do not perform like the name-brand.
I'm like everybody else - I want to get the cheapest price I can. But, if you only pay half as much for a generic - and it doesn't work - have you really saved any $$$?
I don't buy generic dewormers anymore.
Tom, I was uneasy about the pour-on formulations from the time they came on the market - and never used any of them. Work by Yazwinski and others have pretty well convinced me that despite their ease of application, most of the dewormer doesn't get to where it needs to be to kill worms...(what was his finding - 30% gets to the target?) and most of what does get to the target gets there from cattle licking it off themselves and herdmates - not from absorption through the skin. Again, why waste time and $$$ on pour-on 'dewormers', if they're not going to kill the worms? I won't use 'em.
One more thing...weigh or tape your animals. Too many of us try to 'eyeball' 'em and dose accordingly. We're usually wrong, and end up under-dosing - so we don't get effective killing, and contribute to increasing incidence of resistance.
SSGenetics
Well-known member
Good stuff here. Anyone use Noromectin?
highgrit
Well-known member
Some good video there. I have tried the cheap stuff and the expensive pour on with not real good results. And the best results have been with Dectomax Injectable. This last round we used Cydectin Pour-on, but we will use injectable wormer from now on. I thaught the part about using Safe Guard in the winter was great. The cheap pour-on seems to work good on flys and mites. Can you worm to often?? Sounded like just worming once a year for cows was all he thought was needed. That's a new one on me. Humm.
chippie
Well-known member
Thanks for posting the video.
It is good to know about the generics too. I have always steered away from them, especially for our horses.
It is good to know about the generics too. I have always steered away from them, especially for our horses.
A
Anonymous
Great information in the video. Thanks for posting it.
Thanks for that link. We quit the pour-on's 2 years ago, and will never go back. I wish he would have spoken more about the value of rotating wormers from season to season, or maybe I missed that? We've been using Ivomec Plus at the end of November, Cydectin at the end of May, and added Synanthic in July this year. The main thing I've noticed was last year we didn't wean any runty, poor doing calves. The yearlings last year all grew so well we bred & calved every one with no problems this year. The yearlings this year are even heavier than the yearlings were last year.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Chris,
'Rotating' wormers, as we used to recommend it, has pretty much been proven to be a bad idea - just moves you down the road toward developing resistance to all classes of dewormers that much faster. The sheep/goat folks have seen the folly of 'rotating wormers' in a big way - worms will rarely KILL a cow or calf - yes, they do impact performance, but usually are not life-threatening. That's not the case with sheep/goats.
In general, we now recommend picking one dewormer and sticking with it until it's no longer effective, then switching to another class of dewormer.
However, I see some strong merit to Dr. Yazwinski's recommendations on using MLs(macrocyclic lactones - the ivermectin type drugs) during the warm season, and the benzimidazoles(panacur/safeguard/valbazen, etc.) in the winter.
'Rotating' wormers, as we used to recommend it, has pretty much been proven to be a bad idea - just moves you down the road toward developing resistance to all classes of dewormers that much faster. The sheep/goat folks have seen the folly of 'rotating wormers' in a big way - worms will rarely KILL a cow or calf - yes, they do impact performance, but usually are not life-threatening. That's not the case with sheep/goats.
In general, we now recommend picking one dewormer and sticking with it until it's no longer effective, then switching to another class of dewormer.
However, I see some strong merit to Dr. Yazwinski's recommendations on using MLs(macrocyclic lactones - the ivermectin type drugs) during the warm season, and the benzimidazoles(panacur/safeguard/valbazen, etc.) in the winter.
Lucky_P":2bzjxj9h said:
I recall a statement in Dr Yaswinski's video about the timing of worming, and he mentioned using safeguard in the winter in Arkansas but in the summer months in the northern states. This (I think) was due to when the worms would be in an inhibited state. I'd like to learn more about timing of worming.
Also, if a person is generally running a closed herd, and the nearest cow to your herd is a mile away, will resistance build up at different levels on the two seperate herds? IE, if I use ivermectin and the neighbor a mile away uses Cydectin, will the worm populations have different resistance levels?
Lucky_P
Well-known member
There are (at present) three classes of anthelminthics(dewormers)
Benzimidazoles - the 'white' dewormers - Panacur/Safeguard, Valbazen, etc.
Macrocyclic lactones - Ivermectin, Doramectin(DectoMax), Moxidectin(Cydectin)
Imidazothiazoles - levamisole, pyrantel, morantel, etc.
If you have a population of nematode parasites that are resistant to one member of any of the above classes of dewormers, they have resistance to ALL members of that class. So...in answer to your question Chris - since you're both using members of the same class of drugs, you're potentially going to see emergence of resistance to the MLs. Timing, frequency, and whether you deworm the entire herd or just the animals that 'need' it will come into play as to how rapidly the population of parasites will become totally resistance.
What we've seen in small ruminants, where resistance in their parasites(particularly H.contortus) is a major issue, is that if they have parasites resistant to Panacur/Safeguard, then they're also resistant to Valbazen. If they have resistance to ivermectin, they also have resistance to Cydectin - though the potency of Cydectin appears to be able to overcome ivermectin resistance to some degree, for a period of time - but eventually even Cydectin becomes ineffective.
Fortunately, at least for a little while, levamisol had sort of 'fallen out of favor' when ivermectin came on the scene, back in the early 1980s, so a lot of small ruminant parasites 'had not seen' levamisol in a long time, and I never knew of anyone using Strongid or Rumatel to any extent in ruminants, so the imidazothiazoles still have some efficacy - but it may not last long.
Not at all uncommon on a lot of small ruminant operations, to have populations of parasites that are resistant to ALL three classes of dewormers.
Benzimidazoles - the 'white' dewormers - Panacur/Safeguard, Valbazen, etc.
Macrocyclic lactones - Ivermectin, Doramectin(DectoMax), Moxidectin(Cydectin)
Imidazothiazoles - levamisole, pyrantel, morantel, etc.
If you have a population of nematode parasites that are resistant to one member of any of the above classes of dewormers, they have resistance to ALL members of that class. So...in answer to your question Chris - since you're both using members of the same class of drugs, you're potentially going to see emergence of resistance to the MLs. Timing, frequency, and whether you deworm the entire herd or just the animals that 'need' it will come into play as to how rapidly the population of parasites will become totally resistance.
What we've seen in small ruminants, where resistance in their parasites(particularly H.contortus) is a major issue, is that if they have parasites resistant to Panacur/Safeguard, then they're also resistant to Valbazen. If they have resistance to ivermectin, they also have resistance to Cydectin - though the potency of Cydectin appears to be able to overcome ivermectin resistance to some degree, for a period of time - but eventually even Cydectin becomes ineffective.
Fortunately, at least for a little while, levamisol had sort of 'fallen out of favor' when ivermectin came on the scene, back in the early 1980s, so a lot of small ruminant parasites 'had not seen' levamisol in a long time, and I never knew of anyone using Strongid or Rumatel to any extent in ruminants, so the imidazothiazoles still have some efficacy - but it may not last long.
Not at all uncommon on a lot of small ruminant operations, to have populations of parasites that are resistant to ALL three classes of dewormers.
