It actually makes sense!

[IluvABbeef]

Something I heard while listening to the prof today. On the topic of Rangeland Management...

Anyway's, it's to do with hobby farmers. Maybe this has been discussed here before, and if it has, then I've completely missed out.

As we all know, hobby farmers are called so because the animals they raise, be it cattle or horses (or some other livestock), are either for tax deduction purposes or as a romantic thing (aka lawn ornaments), and have some job somewhere's else.

But the thing that really stood out for me (and thus being the prof's pet peeve) is that most of these people who ARE hobby farmers...they don't have the knowledge that they should to properly raise these animals they own OR for the forage that they have the animals graze on.

For instance, say that a couple have land that is suitable for only 3 cows. Instead, they see all this grass, and think that they can stretch the line a bit by buying two more cows in addition to the three. The result? Overgrazing....hungry cows, and the owners finding something or someone else to blame for the mistake that THEY did.

Oh yeah, and here's another thing: weeds!!!! I noticed this with some renters at my grandpa's place that had a few horses. THEY were hobby farmers, because both folks had to go work someplace else for the whole day, and let the horses graze around the corrals, among a whole crapload of weeds that had sprung up and they weren't doing anything about. Not only that, but I see the same thing around areas that surround the city limits, where there're acreages almost everywhere you look. Canada thistle, Chickweed, Quackgrass...a few of many weeds around that area. The farmers around there know how to get rid of them, but that's just on their land. Sure there's folks on their acreages that'll keep their lawns immacuately clipped and free of weeds, but then look at the pens where the livestock are.

And what about this? People that purchase animals (ponies, horses, more like) for their kids, or because they see a bunch of weeds in the corral of the place they just purchased and think (without going to someone with more advice) that a cow can eat anything, why not throw a couple in there to clean the pen up? With the pony, the poor thing will end up getting fat on grass with no excersize, AND spoiled rotten, and then the kids get tired of it, and on and on and on...and with the cows, chances are that the weeds in there are unpalatable, the cows starve, and the owners are wondering why their cows are getting so thin all of a sudden. So the vet gets called out, only to have to say that they can't eat these weeds, and then the owner's'll start b!tchin' and complainin' about all the work they have to do to get these cows back in condition when it was they're stupidity that got them in their situation in the first place.

So, it DOES make sense, to a degree. We all know that there are some awfully stupid people out there that shouldn't even own an acreage OR animals, and it seems that these type of individuals stand out like a flock of flamingos in a crowd of magpies. But of course there are some that would go to great lengths to actually LEARN to raise these animals, even if it's just a few head.

Now, let's hear what you folks have to say about this.

BTW, thanks for letting me rant (if you can call it that).

 

[backhoeboogie]

One of my neighbors has about 6 acres and no fence. She called and told me about these fine horses she had bought. She thought I'd be honored to have those fine animals in MY pasture. It wasn't happening.

I think those you are citing are few and far between. They do exist indeed, but they are not that common IMHO.

Part time? That's me. Hobby farmer? Okay you can call me that all you want. I've been called worse. According to the IRS definition, if your income is greater than $10K, you're not a hobby farmer.

 

[redfornow]

Thats the problem with generalizing. Its true some of the time and not true the rest. So which is it???

Larger isnt better
smaller isnt better
Better IS better

As every guy that has ever walked the planet will tell you. Size doesnt matter, its about being effective with what you have....

 

[Beef11]

This mess is made. How are you going to fix it? The goverment gets involved requires 4 acres to build in county; result 3.5 acres of weeds per house. Fix that problem by having county institue a weed control program. Tax dollars at work.

More often than not people don't know if their horse/cow or whatever is fat or thin (i'm serious).

 

[Jim62]

Sure sounded like a rant to me.

And, I think I may have missed the point completely.

So what is it that makes sense to a degree?

Take two aspirins and get a good night's sleep. It'll all be better in the morning.

 

[Brute 23]

I missed the point also...

Are hobby farmers the ones who do it with another job? the ones who only do it? or the ones who don't do it for profit? :lol: :lol:

 

[vs_cattle]

:?:

 

[Brandonm2]

I think we all know examples of the folks that LuvABeef's professor is talking about. The ones who bought cows because bushogging their 6 acres was "too much work". The guy who goes to the stockyard every month and buys 2 head because he liked their color pattern and didn't buy any hay. That guy with the 4 cows, 3 sheep, 2 ponys, 10 goats, 4 bison, 3 lamas, 2 ostriches, one pig, an emu, and a Clydesdale whose place (animals included) is always up for sale. Most of us ignore these people, but they probably bother extension people and professors too death with questions and crises.

 

[ArmyDoc]

As we all know, hobby farmers are called so because the animals they raise, be it cattle or horses (or some other livestock), are either for tax deduction purposes or as a romantic thing (aka lawn ornaments), and have some job somewhere's else.

This is a stereotype. You imply that anyone who raises livestock but has a secondary source of income is an idiot who doesn't know anything about raising animals. This may be true for some, but isn't true for all.

You also imply that there are only three reasons to raise livestock: For profit, for tax purposes and for "romance", and that those who do it for "romantic" reasons uniformly don't know anything about what they are doing.

So what do you call someone who retires after 30+ years of commercial livestock work, and now just raises a few animals for pleasure? Does all their knowledge and experience just evaporate because they now aren't doing it as a primary source of income?

What about those who are just starting out, who spend all their free time learning everything they can; who's goal is to raise the best quality animals possible using the most environmentally sound priniciples of pasture management possible? Are they to be lumped in with the romantic idots raising lawn ornaments, and rich fools looking for a tax break, just bcause their primary income is still lies elsewhere?

There's pleanty of room for everyone. And there are pleanty of examples of so called "professionals" who have lowered rather than improved the quality of their livestock and pastureland.

Given the bad examples and good examples on both sides of the fence, try not to paint everyone with the same brush.

 

[flaboy?]

I'm just waiting for old CB to jump on to this Hobby Farmer stuff again. Truth be known in my opinion, without the hobby farmer there might very well be a beef shortage in the US.

I work more than 40 hours at farming but I also work 40 hours at another job. What does that make me besides overworked?

I don't know what the original subject was about either but I just wanted to throw that out there. :lol:

 

[The Bachelor]

Well, I started out collecting stamps. Spending 40 or 50 hours a week at that got boring, so I moved onto cows. You can tell my pasture cause there is a bunch of summer cedar growing in it. I'd like to get rid of it, just can't afford to. These dang hobbys are expensive.

Whoops gotta go, one of them lawn ornaments just messed up one of my temporary waterline I put out because of the drought....... I'm getting pretty good at my hobbyin though.... even the dried up pond has weeds in it

 

[grannysoo]

Yup. I'm a hobby farmer too. Have other things to pay my bills.

Only have 350 acres and 35 cows, 3 jackass, a few chickens, goats, etc. Don't do this to support my family, so .........

I do however learn all that I can from here, cattleman schools, my father (another hobby farmer for 50 years), and other methods.

Amazingly enough.... this hobby farmer has some of the best looking cows around.

Given the state of "professionals" that raise cattle in their feed lots, it makes me glad to be a rookie.

 

[sjr725]

I work full time in town not because I want to but because we have to have health insurance and the steady income to rely on. My hubby works the farm full time - we run about 375 pairs plus heifers & bulls etc. I also have horses and an antique pony,and usually a couple of pigs in the summer. We put up about 350 acres of alfalfa hay, we have our share of weeds in the bull pasture that I suppose we'll get around to one of these days - we do spray the drylot pens but it's expensive - I've been thinking to try to turn a few goats in with the bulls and see if they'll eat the kosha & burdock that seems to creep in along the fences? Whatever we can do to raise or save some extra money to keep this place afloat! Some of the land around us has been subdivided into 20 ac parcels and we've sold some steers ect. to those folks - most are good folks just trying to do the right thing and are willing to ask questions and learn from the answers. Don't be too hard on those folks who are just trying to get a little piece of the life you have for themselves.

 

[forageconverter]

Truth be known in my opinion, without the hobby farmer there might very well be a beef shortage in the US.

Exactly.

And that in a nutshell is the real problem with the hobby farmer.

Don't get me wrong, it's a free country and one can make and spend his money however he so wishes. But whenever off-farm income is used to pay on-farm expenses or to support what on-farm income should pay for, then the whole 'farming economics' is thrown off.

A cow is supposed to do three things: pay for itself, pay for the land, and make you a living.

As I see it, off-farm income spent on the farm does two things. First, it serves to inflate the costs of any and all farm-related inputs. Second, it creates a subsidized over-supply of beef, which causes the prices of beef to be less than what it should.

It's a double whammy for the guy who's trying to make a living raising cattle.

Again, though, I'm not knocking the hobby farmer for what he does. I'm just knocking the effect his off-farm income has on the true profitability of a full time cattle producer.

 

[The Bachelor]

Exactly.

And that in a nutshell is the real problem with the hobby farmer.

Don't get me wrong, it's a free country and one can make and spend his money however he so wishes. But whenever off-farm income is used to pay on-farm expenses or to support what on-farm income should pay for, then the whole 'farming economics' is thrown off.

A cow is supposed to do three things: pay for itself, pay for the land, and make you a living.

As I see it, off-farm income spent on the farm does two things. First, it serves to inflate the costs of any and all farm-related inputs. Second, it creates a subsidized over-supply of beef, which causes the prices of beef to be less than what it should.

It's a double whammy for the guy who's trying to make a living raising cattle.

Again, though, I'm not knocking the hobby farmer for what he does. I'm just knocking the effect his off-farm income has on the true profitability of a full time cattle producer.

I hear what your saying, but if I didn't work off the farm, I couldn't afford the land or the infrastructure I had to buy to raise cattle.

I have to respectfully ask the question, can anyone start from scratch and raise cattle at a profit? I just can't see how it can be done.

 

[forageconverter]

[I hear what your saying, but if I didn't work off the farm, I couldn't afford the land or the infrastructure I had to buy to raise cattle.

I have to respectfully ask the question, can anyone start from scratch and raise cattle at a profit? I just can't see how it can be done.

Heck no!

And that's the problem.

And in my opinion, that problem stems for the effect of off-farm income being put back into the farm.

 

[sjr725]

I agree with bachelor, I'm sure there are plenty of totally self suffient farms out there, but it would be near impossible to get started in this business today - there is no way we could have paid today's going price 6-8000 per acre for irrigated hay ground for the place we have nor could we afford this business if we didn't have an inherited forest service lease for summer grass. I work in town to provide health insurance for myself and my husband so if either of us have a health problem it doesn't bankrupt the farm, and to help with general expenses rather than borrowing operating capital every year like some folks do. I take my vacation time during calving and haying season - I don't feel like a hobby farmer - I feel like I have 2 full time jobs!
I'm not complaining, I feel very fortunate to have the life I have and the opportunity to make a living off the farm - Could we make it on just farm income - Sure, we probably could - are we alot more comfortable and secure because one of us has a job off the farm? Yes - it's our choice, it's not right or wrong, it's just our choice.

 

[The Bachelor]

[I hear what your saying, but if I didn't work off the farm, I couldn't afford the land or the infrastructure I had to buy to raise cattle.

I have to respectfully ask the question, can anyone start from scratch and raise cattle at a profit? I just can't see how it can be done.

Heck no!

And that's the problem.

And in my opinion, that problem stems for the effect of off-farm income being put back into the farm.

I would have to repectfully disagree again because I think its always been off farm income that was used to purchase farms. My Father in Law was a good example.

He started working two jobs starting at the age of 16. He worked on his family farm during the day, and at a chicken processing plant at night (he wouldn't eat chicken his whole life after that). Finally after doing this 22 years he finally was able to purchase 1/4 section dairy farm. Now I don't know if he bought it outright or had to take a loan, but on that farm he made his living and raised nine kids. One of which I was fortunate enough to marry.

The point is his off farm job allowed him to buy a place. He is part of the problem, but he was part of the problem 56 years ago when he bought it.

If I wouldn't have put money into an IRA or 401K and saved better and scrimped more, I think I could have bought a 1/4 section and done the same thing after 22 years in todays dollars. Probably not with the same results cause that man knew cattle and could squeeze liquid out of a penny. But I might of been in the same position to start. All because of my off the farm job.

 

[larryshoat]

And besides who would the traders sell all that junk stock to?

 

[Victoria]

Around here the only people who have the money to keep their land weed free are the hobby guys.