ISO Working Dog

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fnfarms1

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Oct 4, 2015
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606
City & State/Province
Miami, OK (NE OK)
I’m not in huge hurry but in need of a good working dog. I’ve got 35hd of pairs. Calves or yearlings occasionally. Nothing dog broke yet. Need something to gather cows regardless if they want gathered. Have couple calves need meds but can’t get them in pen. So long term just like a dog to bring in what doesn’t follow a bucket.

Guessing Border Collie(probably be smarter than me). I know nothing of how to train one, so already working. Doesn’t need to win shows etc just get the job done without putting them through a fence. Price will be a factor since I don’t need it to do my taxes but I realize they’re not cheap. Younger dog to last few years unless it’s on cheaper side and I’d pay for an older dog to live out years on easy street. No feedlots or daily work, guessing once or 2x a week at most. Located NE OK.
 
Good dogs are hard to find. Some of the best dogs I've seen that do what you describe learned from being with their owner allot. Usually a Border Collie or Heeler who already shows some drive on cattle.
 
Lucky said:
Good dogs are hard to find. Some of the best dogs I've seen that do what you describe learned from being with their owner allot. Usually a Border Collie or Heeler who already shows some drive on cattle.
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I can see this. We have a heeler who shows alittle drive but mostly only when pushing them in the alley. Plus she’s 15-16yrs old and not sure I’m teaching that old dog anything. She’s typically in the gate or calves are chasing her in the wrong direction I want them to go. lol.
I had a trained border collie (I could afford) found 4hrs from home but it sold by the time I got time to go after it
 
It is hard to have a good working dog with just sporadic work, a young dog especially. they want to work every day. Quiet cattle and cows with young calves are also a problem. I know what you mean by the calves coming after the dogs, I have a black Kelpie who is a good dog but the calves seem to want to come after to play with it and I have to encourage her, tch,tch,tch to get her to be a bit more aggressive to them then all hell breaks loose as the cows come after the dogs when one of the calves bellows out after getting bitten on the nose.

Ken
 
wbvs58 said:
It is hard to have a good working dog with just sporadic work, a young dog especially. they want to work every day. Quiet cattle and cows with young calves are also a problem. I know what you mean by the calves coming after the dogs, I have a black Kelpie who is a good dog but the calves seem to want to come after to play with it and I have to encourage her, tch,tch,tch to get her to be a bit more aggressive to them then all hell breaks loose as the cows come after the dogs when one of the calves bellows out after getting bitten on the nose.

Ken
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Yeah that’s why I need one trained already. Guy that trains them and sells some says using them 1-2x a week will keep them tuned up. Managed to catch and doctor calves today off just fourwheeler but was very surprised it worked out really
 
fnfarms1 said:
I’m not in huge hurry but in need of a good working dog. I’ve got 35hd of pairs. Calves or yearlings occasionally. Nothing dog broke yet. Need something to gather cows regardless if they want gathered. Have couple calves need meds but can’t get them in pen. So long term just like a dog to bring in what doesn’t follow a bucket.

Guessing Border Collie(probably be smarter than me). I know nothing of how to train one, so already working. Doesn’t need to win shows etc just get the job done without putting them through a fence. Price will be a factor since I don’t need it to do my taxes but I realize they’re not cheap. Younger dog to last few years unless it’s on cheaper side and I’d pay for an older dog to live out years on easy street. No feedlots or daily work, guessing once or 2x a week at most. Located NE OK.
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i feel your pain. i just bought an Australian Shepherd pup yesterday to hopefully help me when needed. will have to train myself. had a german shepherd once that i could point and he would "hit" any cow that was being a rascal, and help me drive them also. that was 20 years ago, and i have 3 good german shepherds now for guard dogs but no help with cattle. Probably my fault. hope this Aussie pup has good instincts and i can train him enough to get by. good luck bro
 
There are plenty of cow dog pups available out there. It is important to find ones where both parents are working dogs. Because not all Aussie, Border Collie, or heelers are working dogs. A lot of the none working dogs are kept as pets and they end up having pups too.

I have a friend who ends up getting some dogs who just don't work. He runs an ad in a city paper offering the dog for free. City people come look at the dog will ask him what if nobody takes the dog. I replies I guess I will have to shoot it. Says that works every time. They take the dog.
 
Dave said:
There are plenty of cow dog pups available out there. It is important to find ones where both parents are working dogs. Because not all Aussie, Border Collie, or heelers are working dogs. A lot of the none working dogs are kept as pets and they end up having pups too.

I have a friend who ends up getting some dogs who just don't work. He runs an ad in a city paper offering the dog for free. City people come look at the dog will ask him what if nobody takes the dog. I replies I guess I will have to shoot it. Says that works every time. They take the dog.
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i understand..been there..
 
Biggest thing IMO with any good working dog is getting the owner/handler to be trained on how to work with the dog. If you don't understand REALLY WELL what the natural instincts of the breed (at the very least) are (they ARE different), then you're probably going to be disappointed with the dogs way of working with the animals.

I had a really highly-bred BC that I could do just about anything with... but my cousin, who was the same age as me and who worked on the same farm (our Dad's were partners) absolutely refused to "learn" how to work with him. He couldn't do anything that he wanted to with that dog... My Dad though was willing to learn how that dog wanted to work naturally, and he also got along great with him. This dog's grand-daddy was a reserve world champion in the sheepdog trials, and he was bred by one of the biggest names in the Border Collie world. He had incredible INSTINCT and DRIVE... was hard to hold him back and keep him under control! But my cousin would cuss him out and just absolutely hated working with him.

As far as those calves that need meds, maybe a dart gun would be a good investment to an easy way to treat individuals when necessary, instead of having to pen 'em.
 
Here cows get moved a lot with horses and dogs. Younger calves the dogs often get left at home. The cows get too protective of the calves and the fight is on. That slows things down. Dogs either get left at home or are well enough trained to stay back unless told to go to work. Once we get to mid summer the dogs go to work.
 
Yeah, that really good BC that I had, when I tried "raising our calves on the cows" (in our dairy at the time, where we had to get the cows into the barn for milking twice a day) became "an issue" too. Momma's were intent on driving the dog away from baby, rather than flowing with the herd. Either had to tie the dog up away from the cattle, or wean the calves, or all you'd have was a rodeo. We had some really nice healthy calves growing them that way... but it became impossible to manage them when having to "handle them" 2X/day.
 
RDFF said:
Biggest thing IMO with any good working dog is getting the owner/handler to be trained on how to work with the dog. If you don't understand REALLY WELL what the natural instincts of the breed (at the very least) are (they ARE different), then you're probably going to be disappointed with the dogs way of working with the animals.

I had a really highly-bred BC that I could do just about anything with... but my cousin, who was the same age as me and who worked on the same farm (our Dad's were partners) absolutely refused to "learn" how to work with him. He couldn't do anything that he wanted to with that dog... My Dad though was willing to learn how that dog wanted to work naturally, and he also got along great with him. This dog's grand-daddy was a reserve world champion in the sheepdog trials, and he was bred by one of the biggest names in the Border Collie world. He had incredible INSTINCT and DRIVE... was hard to hold him back and keep him under control! But my cousin would cuss him out and just absolutely hated working with him.

As far as those calves that need meds, maybe a dart gun would be a good investment to an easy way to treat individuals when necessary, instead of having to pen 'em.
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Yeah my neighbor has a dart gun. Had actually given up and was on a last attempted to drive them to pen while on the phone to borrow the gun. Lo and behold they went in the corral…..by accident I’m sure. I will likely invest in one, I just really prefer the chute if possible even when it takes 30mins more. But have to do what you can, where you are, with what you got.
 
If you're good with the dart gun, it's a much lower stress way to treat when necessary for individuals... of course if needing to treat "whole herd", or large groups within the herd, penning and chute/alley working is more efficient, and lower cost.
 
A couple years ago had a couple of calves with pink eye. B has a CO2 dart pistol. After he bounced 2 darts off calves we ran 150 newly weaned calves into the corral to sort off and treat half a dozen. I have a Pneu pump up dart rifle. Darts from it don't bounce off.
 
@Dave, do you think the bounce came from too much or too little power on the dart? Obviously, they both (CO2 or pump-up) work on the same principle... but with the CO2, you're entirely dependent upon how much pressure there is left in your CO2 cartridge, in order to develop the power that is used to fire it. I think they should have a pressure gauge built into the stock of the guns, to let you know precisely what pressure you're firing with.

CO2 cartridges are cheap... so I'd rather waste some CO2 pressure than a loaded dart that fails because of a lack of firing power. I generally will dry-fire ahead of using it, to "hear" how much power my CO2 cartridge has left in it. But a gauge would be a much better way of measuring/determining it. And a gauge with the pump option would get you in the sweet spot every time.
 
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I give mine 5 or 6 pumps. If I can't get close to the critter I give it 4 more pumps for a 10 total. I have shot them from 30+ yards with 10 pumps. Never a failure.
 
Silver said:
I have the rimfire pneudart, it give a predictable shot every time, and the force can be adjusted on a dial.
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I bought a used CapChur, had it redone since it was pretty rough.but it never was right. If I buy another it will likely be the pump version. I like the idea of the gun but just don’t have ton of use for it. The blanks are great for consistency I think but a lot of variables
 
We've got a pump dart gun and really like it. The only time I've had a dart bounce off is the last one we darted for foot rot. She was a 700# yearling and I hit her a little too far back on the shoulder.
I just got back in from penning a cow that has a lump on her jaw. I'd say it's 100x less stressful on everyone and everything involved if you can use a dart gun to treat them. This cow was pretty gentle but she ended up stressed out and pretty mad at me.
 

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