dun":yce2isiw said:
That doesn;t even qualify as an OWT, it's just hogwash.
If a heifer calves unassisted we "assume" she'll be able to calve unassisted from then on. But the only thing that is dead bang certain in this business is that there is nothing that is dead bang certain
Since the original hogwash statement was made by me I'll elaborate....
Maybe I should have said when a heifer can have the first one unassisted, she'll
GENERALLY have all the later calves unassisted as well barring twins and other freak situations
if its a normal presentation
That being said, read the whole thread and put it in the context it was written. The discussion was about how to introduce a bigger BW bull into your herd through AI. If any of you feel those cows that struggled to have the first calf are the ideal candidates to use the higher BW bull on to improve your herd, go ahead, but its not the way I would do it and not what would advise anyone that asks me.
All this talk about pulling calves out of second calvers and older cows makes me wonder just how much dystocia you all have? I'll assist less than 10% of births out of heifers aged 22-25 months and I don't deliberately use calving bulls, that being said I avoid big BW bulls the same way I avoid extremely low BW bulls. I never (let's say seldom to be more PC) have to help a second calver and onwards unless its a malpresentation caused by twins trying to be born at the same time.
I corrected one malpresentation in a second calver this year (one foot back) I just corrected the presentation and before I could get the ropes on the feet the calf was born naturally.
As most on here know, I like my herefords wide and deep with lots of muscle, I am not afraid of masculine well muscled masculine shoulders on bulls, I want a wide broad chest on bulls, I like short broad masculine heads, a thick short neck, I like medium to medium heavy bone, I don't breed heifers to cow freshner bulls, according to most "experts" I am a calving disaster waiting to happen, the fact is my herd calves easily, my bulls in other herds causes no calving difficulty (actually much less than the bulls they used in the past) otherwise I won't have return customers.
I also want a
slight slope from hooks to pins, width between the hooks and pins, I avoid tall leggy bulls, depth and extra capacity is not even negotiable in heifers to be retained, I don't chase extremes. I place alot of emphasis on correct shoulder structure.
I cull vigorously everything that don't calf unassisted or are lazy calvers, I believe that a registered heifer should be able to have a calf of breed average size with no problem ......and I don't need to pull calves out of mature cows.
If mature cows needs assistance calving normal presentations, you (generally speaking) need to re-evaluate your breeding and selection protocols.
But the only thing that is dead bang certain in this business is that there is nothing that is dead bang certain
Very true, that and the fact that if the goal is an argument, it will always be achieved.
