Is it possible?

[Jogeephus]

Have you ever had a situation where your clover was as invasive enough where it might be considered a weed? Or is this possible for clover to be considered a weed? I keep clover mainly as a soil builder for the free N and grazing is secondary but this year has been an odd one and what I'm seeing now is the clover might be competing too much with my other grasses. Cattle are pretty loose and slick so I'm not to concerned about it but I do think some of my grasses are taking a hit because of it. But then again its been a strange year. Thoughts?

 

[Bright Raven]

Have you ever had a situation where your clover was as invasive enough where it might be considered a weed? Or is this possible for clover to be considered a weed? I keep clover mainly as a soil builder for the free N and grazing is secondary but this year has been an odd one and what I'm seeing now is the clover might be competing too much with my other grasses. Cattle are pretty loose and slick so I'm not to concerned about it but I do think some of my grasses are taking a hit because of it. But then again its been a strange year. Thoughts?

By definition, any undesirable plant is a weed. There is no scientific basis for the category of plants we all call weeds.

Regarding the clover. I been out for the last 5 hours. Separating cows, knocking the hair off the ones that needed it and poured for my second time with Ultra Boss. As I came back in, I walked through the pasture and hay field - I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS MUCH RED CLOVER!!!

 

[dun]

Clover is going nuts, but when the cows graze it down the other (less desirable to cows) grass comes on it will takes some of it's place. We have one pasture with so much clover that the cows are skipping eating it and eating mostly grass.

 

[dun]

By definition, any undesirable plant is a weed. There is no scientific basis for the category of plants we all call weeds.

Never explain to your grand kids that a weed is just a flower growing where you don;t want it. They'll bring you arms full of "flowers" so you can make a special bed for them.

 

[Jogeephus]

Yeah, I get the definition of a weed but I'm still straddling the fence on whether I've got a problem or not. Granted, if this is my biggest problem this year I'll be in high cotton. I've just never seen it grow so thick and its everywhere. From a N fixing standpoint and a forage quality standpoint I'm sitting pretty but I need some roughage to start growing. I imagine I'll have this soon enough once the heat sets the clover back which will happen shortly. Just never had this happen.

 

[1982vett]

Last year we had a lot of clover and grass for that matter. I decided I wasn't going to cut hay and let the clover seed out. Well it got so thick in places the Bermuda had a hard time coming through. This year instead of rotating through pastures I'm let them run the whole place in hopes to not have that problem again. Seems to be working. Still have plenty of clover, it's just not so tall as its grazed and trampled. I'm not as worried about bloat this way either. I did close them out of part of the pastures last week to begin a rotational schedule again.

But yeah, too much clover is like thick blown over ryegrass. I can mat over and kill out whatever can't get through it.

 

[Bigfoot]

Unless I was having bloat issues, I don't think I would worry about it.

 

[Jogeephus]

Last year we had a lot of clover and grass for that matter. I decided I wasn't going to cut hay and let the clover seed out. Well it got so thick in places the Bermuda had a hard time coming through. This year instead of rotating through pastures I'm let them run the whole place in hopes to not have that problem again. Seems to be working. Still have plenty of clover, it's just not so tall as its grazed and trampled. I'm not as worried about bloat this way either. I did close them out of part of the pastures last week to begin a rotational schedule again.

But yeah, too much clover is like thick blown over ryegrass. I can mat over and kill out whatever can't get through it.

This is my concern in the bermuda. Not so worried about it in bahia but the bermuda is lagging bad. I'll just wait and see what happens.

 

[kenny thomas]

Jo, I have a theory that we had so much drought last year that we have lost some of the grasses. The hard clover seed have been laying there just waiting for the open space so they can fill it.

 

[dun]

Someting that is kind of funny is we have never had crown vetch on this farm, at least in the 16 years we've been here. This year it is all over the place and forming dense foot tanle masses. Cows sure do like it though

 

[Jogeephus]

Jo, I have a theory that we had so much drought last year that we have lost some of the grasses. The hard clover seed have been laying there just waiting for the open space so they can fill it.

You may be on to something. About three years ago I sprayed some gramoxone around the barn and did a 100% burndown and what came back was persian clover. I've never planted any persian clover but now its all over where I did the burndown so this could be the same as what you are talking about with the other clovers in the pastures. I have two hay fields that have never been seeded in clover which are nearly ready to cut but the one with the clover in it is at least three weeks behind.

We've had some odd weather this year.

 

[greybeard]

I'd like to have a 'problem' such as yours Joe.

I have come to the conclusion, that plants react oddly to a drought or unusually wet year, and the effects are often seen the following year. I think you and I have discussed this before..

In late summer, fall and winter of 2010 and 2011, everything here produced seeds and fruit like crazy, from tallow, to oak trees, and wolly croton. It's like everything decided; "Hey..we're fixin to die so we have to reproduce enough to carry on after were gone". Never saw (or since) so many acorns, pine cones, croton seed heads, hickory nuts, and blackberries. Same was true with animals. Winter of 2011, this place was run amok with cottontails and swamp hares, as if the adults were spitting out more in hopes that just one would survive the coming year. Saw more twin deer that winter than ever before too.
Perhaps your clover is the same way, producing more hard seed the previous year to ensure survivability of the species the following year..Nature just somehow knows.

 

[Clodhopper]

We had clover in places I never seen it, big and lush, in the spring of 2012, just before the worst drought since 1983. I hope this doesn't mean the same for you. this year is starting out like '12 for us, just hope it doesn't end the same.

 

[Jogeephus]

Its looking to be a dry year. My wife told me the weatherman said we were in for some bad storms this weekend but I told her they were just over-reacting since they missed the last storm that did so much damage pretty bad. Told her I thought they were either gunshy or trying to scare people into believing in man man made climate change. Turns out I was right. No bad weather and only a few drops of rain.

Greybeard, I believe what you are saying has a lot of truth to it. I once new a root doctor and she would often time injure her fruit trees in her yard so they would bear more fruit. Typically she made more fruit than most of her neighbors.

 

[Brute 23]

Yes, it is. Im not a fan of clover in our hay fields.

We have had similar situations as Vette. We would spray a light weed killer with our fertilizer at the beginning of the year just to help kill out the clover and other winter weeds from our hay fields.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Have you ever had a situation where your clover was as invasive enough where it might be considered a weed?

Yes, because when you have 98% legume you usually let it get pretty mature before grazing, which really reduces palatability. If they don't eat it...
I just had some clover weed paddocks winter kill. Some grass is showing but it is mostly clover seedlings. Perhaps 5 seedlings per square inch from grazing tall. Now trying to inter seed some oats and OG.

 

[Jogeephus]

Yes, because when you have 98% legume you usually let it get pretty mature before grazing, which really reduces palatability. If they don't eat it...

I'm grazing it hard but its just a thick mat. Cows are loose but slick. I may set some hay out but I doubt they will eat it.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'm grazing it hard but its just a thick mat.

Probably depositing 500# per acre in the seed bank. :nod:

 

[Banjo]

If you got too much clover, put some ammonia nitrate on it and that will push your grass and stifle the clover.

 

[skyhightree1]

Have you ever had a situation where your clover was as invasive enough where it might be considered a weed? Or is this possible for clover to be considered a weed? I keep clover mainly as a soil builder for the free N and grazing is secondary but this year has been an odd one and what I'm seeing now is the clover might be competing too much with my other grasses. Cattle are pretty loose and slick so I'm not to concerned about it but I do think some of my grasses are taking a hit because of it. But then again its been a strange year. Thoughts?

I know what you mean Jo but I think mine was self inflicted