Irrigation...making it pay

[uncle]

Hello ladies and gents! You all have been so helpful in my other questions I wanted to throw another at you.

In our part of the country we are in a heavy drought! (Texas Panhandle) So I have been kicking around the idea of using an old irrigation well that my dad used some 20 years ago in our cotton days. The well did 800 gpm with a diesel engine & turbin but it too has been shut-in for 20 years and would not only need significant repair but fuel is so high! With that said I am considering electric sub "single phase" (three phase is not close by). I can get about 150 gpm with a 15 hp sub(largest I can find single phase). I am also considering using (2) lines of the k-line (http://www.pacag.com/K-Line-Brochure.pdf) irrigation system.

I am concerned that this will one add too much cost to my operation (75 pairs, in a cow-calf operation). And two...not actually accomplish what I hope to accomplish, which is grow grass.

Probably should say that I am moving towards a MIG/MOB style grazing system. I would love to hear your input.

Thanks
Uncle

 

[Douglas]

With grain prices so high and so much being used for fuel, as a society we need to find ways to increase our production on less and less land. Irrigation will pay a big role it that, i commend you for thinking out of the box. If i told my 87 year old dad i was thinking about irrigating pasture, it might kill him. Winter annuals is a big part of my forage plans for the future and one good irrigation in the fall to get an early start looks profitable to me as our falls are often dry. There are a lot of places on the internet that estimates the cost of electricity to run a pump. You need to pencil it all out.

 

[1wlimo]

I see no reason as to why it should not work, or pay. Irrigation is never as easy as it should be, but then lots of thimgs are like that.

This link my help, http://www.grazeonline.com/articles/sma ... irrig.html

Solar power is also a viable allternative, may be not in year one, but down the line as cash allows.

 

[TexasBred]

Unc. you live there so I know you're aware of the high evaporation rate...lots of sunshine, lots of win and low humidity.... It will take much more water to get results than it would take in many other areas but you just might be able to make it work. ;-)

 

[agmantoo]

You guys are addressing the one issue that I cannot conclude how to manage at my place. How to survive a drought without making hay? With average rain or as much as 30% less throughout the year I can manage. During 2003 I weathered a drought that was sufficient to cause payout by the government. Then in 2007/2008 we had a very severe drought that nearly put me out of business as there was no hay to be had. Just getting the pastures recovered since then has been a task. I have considered irrigating but cannot determine how to efficiently apply the technique to my very rolling hills that comprise my pastures. An alternative that I have considered is buying hay when it is plentiful and storing it in the dry until needed. The cost of a storage building large enough to handle my projected needs is difficult to justify. The same applies to an irrigation system that may need to be used only every 6 to 10 years. With the hay storage, the herd headcount would have to remain where it is. With irrigation I feel I could increase the headcount by 10% plus. I cannot buy any additional adjoining property because there is none that will come on the market. I would certainly appreciate your sharing any thoughts or conclusions you reach with the irrigation research.
Currently, without hay, I am carrying a both cow (usually bred), and her offspring till marketed, 365 days/year on 1.4 acres with rotational grazing so I doubt that I will be able to increase my efficiency.

 

[novatech]

Here is an article that may give you some insight as to how to calculate your costs.
http://www.tarleton.edu/Departments/txj ... 1_art6.pdf
The cost of energy usually counters any profits gained by irrigation.
With a pod system you may want to check out the solar as mentioned or even a wind mill. The key to making these work for you is a large storage tank that will supply enough water during irrigation and enough time in between to refill the tank. The tank must be elevated to supply enough pressure for the system.
The other thing to remember is that the grass selected must be water efficient.
I can attest that the WW B Dahl holds up better than any other grass in our area, at least on my 10 acre test plot.

 

[jedstivers]

How did the well water the crops? Row water, pivots ect. We water 90% of the farm here if not just a little more so we pump lots of water. I have some 10 HP subs and they are the smallest we run and they aren't to bad on elect but they do cost the most just because they pump so much less than the big wells (700 gal per min vs 2500-3000). We would run 15 HP but the elect co-op won't allow that size on single phase but on Entergy we can run 15 but I dont have any land by there lines now. As far as what you can do out there ask people that are watering there what they do an what you could do.

 

[Angus Cowman]

How did the well water the crops? Row water, pivots ect. We water 90% of the farm here if not just a little more so we pump lots of water. I have some 10 HP subs and they are the smallest we run and they aren't to bad on elect but they do cost the most just because they pump so much less than the big wells (700 gal per min vs 2500-3000). We would run 15 HP but the elect co-op won't allow that size on single phase but on Entergy we can run 15 but I dont have any land by there lines now. As far as what you can do out there ask people that are watering there what they do an what you could do.

Jed maybe you could reverse them pumps and trying to pump some water back into the well

it might help ya drain off some of that lake you have behind your house

I have thought about drilling a well and putting some irrigation in on some Millet fields in the summer but my problem is getting enough water if I go deep enough to get the volume then I have alot of money in a well

 

[uncle]

How did the well water the crops? Row water, pivots ect. We water 90% of the farm here if not just a little more so we pump lots of water. I have some 10 HP subs and they are the smallest we run and they aren't to bad on elect but they do cost the most just because they pump so much less than the big wells (700 gal per min vs 2500-3000). We would run 15 HP but the elect co-op won't allow that size on single phase but on Entergy we can run 15 but I dont have any land by there lines now. As far as what you can do out there ask people that are watering there what they do an what you could do.

I would love to ask someone but no one in our area does this! Wow you get 700 gpm out of 10hp? Can you give me details on those pumps... MFG, depth, pressure, pipe size etc.

Tks

 

[kenny thomas]

How did the well water the crops? Row water, pivots ect. We water 90% of the farm here if not just a little more so we pump lots of water. I have some 10 HP subs and they are the smallest we run and they aren't to bad on elect but they do cost the most just because they pump so much less than the big wells (700 gal per min vs 2500-3000). We would run 15 HP but the elect co-op won't allow that size on single phase but on Entergy we can run 15 but I dont have any land by there lines now. As far as what you can do out there ask people that are watering there what they do an what you could do.

I would love to ask someone but no one in our area does this! Wow you get 700 gpm out of 10hp? Can you give me details on those pumps... MFG, depth, pressure, pipe size etc.

Tks

Heck, he don't have to go but 10ft deep to hit water in dry weather. Just bubbles out of the ground now. :lol2:

 

[jedstivers]

How did the well water the crops? Row water, pivots ect. We water 90% of the farm here if not just a little more so we pump lots of water. I have some 10 HP subs and they are the smallest we run and they aren't to bad on elect but they do cost the most just because they pump so much less than the big wells (700 gal per min vs 2500-3000). We would run 15 HP but the elect co-op won't allow that size on single phase but on Entergy we can run 15 but I dont have any land by there lines now. As far as what you can do out there ask people that are watering there what they do an what you could do.

I would love to ask someone but no one in our area does this! Wow you get 700 gpm out of 10hp? Can you give me details on those pumps... MFG, depth, pressure, pipe size etc.

Tks

I was wrong about 700, it's 500 on those wells. All of our wells have the pumps set at 90' to 120'. 8" casing with 6" discharge, don't know the MFG, they used to put jicuzzie (sp) brand pumps but not sure now. We don't do pressure checks on these kinds of wells. How did your well water in the past? Row water out of gated pipe, pivot, traveling gun, wheel line?
AC lots of my wells are under 5'-20' feet of water. Wells on the protected side of the levee have water running full pipe out of them like they are pumping.

 

[kenny thomas]

Jed has the water started going down at all yet?

 

[jedstivers]

Jed has the water started going down at all yet?

Yep it is down 4 or 5 feet but the last few days rain is going to stop the fall and is just going to set for a while. I have about 100 of the 1700 that was under out now.

 

[uncle]

How did the well water the crops? Row water, pivots ect. We water 90% of the farm here if not just a little more so we pump lots of water. I have some 10 HP subs and they are the smallest we run and they aren't to bad on elect but they do cost the most just because they pump so much less than the big wells (700 gal per min vs 2500-3000). We would run 15 HP but the elect co-op won't allow that size on single phase but on Entergy we can run 15 but I dont have any land by there lines now. As far as what you can do out there ask people that are watering there what they do an what you could do.

I would love to ask someone but no one in our area does this! Wow you get 700 gpm out of 10hp? Can you give me details on those pumps... MFG, depth, pressure, pipe size etc.

Tks

I was wrong about 700, it's 500 on those wells. All of our wells have the pumps set at 90' to 120'. 8" casing with 6" discharge, don't know the MFG, they used to put jicuzzie (sp) brand pumps but not sure now. We don't do pressure checks on these kinds of wells. How did your well water in the past? Row water out of gated pipe, pivot, traveling gun, wheel line?
AC lots of my wells are under 5'-20' feet of water. Wells on the protected side of the levee have water running full pipe out of them like they are pumping.

Back in the cotton days they were side-roll systems (4 of them) but those are long gone!

500 gpm that still sounds really good! The guys that have been working on mine are not talking in those numbers at all, so that concerns me. Our old pump was a turbine on a diesel motor and the well was at 800 gpm but could never pump it down... so it would do a lot more but my dad never knew how much more.

I would love to get 500 gpm! ...especially on 10 hp.

 

[1wlimo]

"I would love to get 500 gpm! ...especially on 10 hp"

You could looking at pumping water from your well over a longer term into a dugout. Then use this stored water to irrigate with. I have seen this is several systems where the well culd not supply the volume of water required.

The up side could be that you get the volume of water at lower cost when you need to apply it, and that you could maybe use wind power to pump it out of the well.

The down side is the extra expense of water storage.

Some people pump all year into storage where they are limited of well flow, or just in the winter, high flood in rivers etc.

I have woked on some where between 30 and 40 systems, and not one was the same, even on the same farm.

 

[uncle]

"I would love to get 500 gpm! ...especially on 10 hp"

You could looking at pumping water from your well over a longer term into a dugout. Then use this stored water to irrigate with. I have seen this is several systems where the well culd not supply the volume of water required.

The up side could be that you get the volume of water at lower cost when you need to apply it, and that you could maybe use wind power to pump it out of the well.

The down side is the extra expense of water storage.

Some people pump all year into storage where they are limited of well flow, or just in the winter, high flood in rivers etc.

I have woked on some where between 30 and 40 systems, and not one was the same, even on the same farm.

Let me give you more info because what I am hearing is that it is possible to get 500 gmp on a 10 hp pump... is that correct?

The well that I want to use does 800 gpm to the bore hole (11") on the biggest pump that we ever put on it 20 years ago... turbine on diesel motor 8" stand pipe and we could never pump the water lower than 36' from the top of the hole...well is about 100'.

I was told that using a 15 hp pump/motor that about 180 gpm was the best I could get! (single phase) Sounds like to me that I need to go back to the service guys and ask some more questions! ...that is if I am understanding you correctly?? Is that the case?

uncle

 

[novatech]

"I would love to get 500 gpm! ...especially on 10 hp"

You could looking at pumping water from your well over a longer term into a dugout. Then use this stored water to irrigate with. I have seen this is several systems where the well culd not supply the volume of water required.

The up side could be that you get the volume of water at lower cost when you need to apply it, and that you could maybe use wind power to pump it out of the well.

The down side is the extra expense of water storage.

Some people pump all year into storage where they are limited of well flow, or just in the winter, high flood in rivers etc.

I have woked on some where between 30 and 40 systems, and not one was the same, even on the same farm.

Let me give you more info because what I am hearing is that it is possible to get 500 gmp on a 10 hp pump... is that correct?

The well that I want to use does 800 gpm to the bore hole (11") on the biggest pump that we ever put on it 20 years ago... turbine on diesel motor 8" stand pipe and we could never pump the water lower than 36' from the top of the hole...well is about 100'.

I was told that using a 15 hp pump/motor that about 180 gpm was the best I could get! (single phase) Sounds like to me that I need to go back to the service guys and ask some more questions! ...that is if I am understanding you correctly?? Is that the case?

uncle

GPH is going to governed by HP and depth of water up to the wells output capability.

 

[Kingfisher]

[

GPH is going to governed by HP and depth of water up to the wells output capability.[/quote]
I would think your part of Texas would be ripe for irrigation. I think the trick is some well placed storage tanks" and
at least one good well. Run the pumps on solar and feed drip lines off a main line to irrigate some rotational pastures.

 

[LRTX1]

I am considering buying a smaller reel type unit. We have a spring on the place that my grandfather used to irrigate vegetables with. He ran close to 500gpms all day and the spring would be back full in the morning. Spring has a dam (needs repair) and a canal to get the water to the edge of the pasture. Hard decision to make to put out 10 grand for the set-up. Would be nice in times like these when the rain is a little scarce.

 

[gimpyrancher]

I'm going to have to store to irrigate. How do I calculate how big a storage tank I need?

How far can I go from the Tank? To determine if I need more than one. If I have almost level land, do I need to elevate the Tank? :2cents: