inbreeding

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scf84

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City & State/Province
lawrence co.Tennessee
bought a bull from a cousin of mine last fall and now he has a few hiefers id like to get, they have the same dad and different moms. what would happen if i get these hiefers and breed them to him?
 
inbreeding doesn't create genetic problems, it only brings them to light.. I'd go ahead and get them, you'll probably have the cows far longer than the bull anyhow
 
Won't hurt a thing. And if you get a 2 headed calf with 8 legs and 3 tails it will sell on Craigslist for big money! :2cents:
 
scf84":28zqv70s said:
bought a bull from a cousin of mine last fall and now he has a few hiefers id like to get, they have the same dad and different moms. what would happen if i get these hiefers and breed them to him?
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Well to start with... they'd be right at home in Tennessee... :D .... (Sorry couldn't help myself)

RANDOM mating 1/2 brother to 1/2 sisters isn't the best choice, but doable.
The traits they have in common, the good, the bad and the ugly, will be intensified.
Don't plan on keeping any for replacements, but there is the possibility of getting a good keeper or 2, if you're lucky.
 
WalnutCrest":3ut2zbv9 said:
Muddy":3ut2zbv9 said:
WalnutCrest":3ut2zbv9 said:
I'd keep all the nice daughters from that combo...
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Why? Because they're inbred?
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And your question infers that retaining nice heifers out of that pairing is a bad idea because they are the result of pairing half siblings?
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I only keep best ones, regardless of what matings.
 
WalnutCrest":19wiro4p said:
I'd keep all the nice daughters from that combo...
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The key word is Nice.
But the odds of getting Nice (genetically superior) offspring from a RANDOM 1/2 sibling mating is extremely low.
Responsible animal breeding requires rigorous culling for the health of the breed, especially true when inbreeding.
The rule of thumb for commercial herds is to keep the inbreeding coefficient as low as possible and under 4% max.
in an effort to prevent hidden defects, such as decreased fertility, from entering your herd.
 
Nesikep":2gp7rafr said:
inbreeding doesn't create genetic problems, it only brings them to light.
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Maybe in the first generation, to find out where you're at, but after that....
I thought the point of inbreeding/linebreeding is to help create or change desirable heterozygous traits
into homozygous traits to increase uniformity?
 
Son of Butch":2frm9ost said:
WalnutCrest":2frm9ost said:
I'd keep all the nice daughters from that combo...
Click to expand...
The key word is Nice.
But the odds of getting Nice (genetically superior) offspring from a RANDOM 1/2 sibling mating is extremely low.
Responsible animal breeding requires rigorous culling for the health of the breed, especially true when inbreeding.
The rule of thumb for commercial herds is to keep the inbreeding coefficient as low as possible and under 4% max.
in an effort to prevent hidden defects, such as decreased fertility, from entering your herd.
Click to expand...

I never said anything about it being a high probability situation.

The OP also never said anything about this being random. Maybe the sire in question is his dream bull and the cows are the best he's seen.
 
WalnutCrest":34f557x1 said:
I never said anything about it being a high probability situation.

The OP also never said anything about this being random. Maybe the sire in question is his dream bull and the cows are the best he's seen.
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I wasn't criticizing, my intent was to point out that you were using a thought process of selection by selecting only
the Nice females and not just any or all offspring. I even stated he may "get Lucky" and get a replacement or 2
but not to plan on it, so bottom line we are very close in agreement.

The OP question clearly indicates to me he doesn't have a plan for these matings and no plan makes it as close
to random as it gets.
 
But the odds of getting Nice (genetically superior) offspring from a RANDOM 1/2 sibling mating is extremely low.
Responsible animal breeding requires rigorous culling for the health of the breed, especially true when inbreeding.
The rule of thumb for commercial herds is to keep the inbreeding coefficient as low as possible and under 4% max.
in an effort to prevent hidden defects, such as decreased fertility, from entering your herd.
Click to expand...
Not sure that what we have done has proved these negatives. Random mating of 1/2 sibs has not shown problems and actually helps on calving out first calf heifers. The bull is not picked randomly but hybrid vigor is definitely low to hold down BW. Or you can go to sire daughter to make it tighter.

No health differences in inbred animals.

%IBC to actually get prepotency in purebred herds is different from the commercial side. My opinion - if you are not up to 12% or 15% IBC on purebred source animals as a minimum you are just thinking about linebreeding.

Will agree on one point: some heifers of inbreeding will be classically good animals and infertile to never breed. % is probably 5% or something like that. Next year, change bulls or outcross the dam and move on because now you know.

This year: AI will include a bull that only has one greatgrandmother, some other AI bulls are tight bred but not as much going back on cows of the same line(s), bull with heifers is full brother/full sister mating, clean up bull on cows has one grandmother so a half sib (maternal) mating. Health and function of cattle are good. Solid on feet and legs, I have one cow that concerns me on one quarter (she is out of a random outcross) but is not bad. Until the wheels fall off I will breed cattle and sheep this way because I only have 25 years or less to breed animals and I want stabilization and improvement ASAP. Nothing random about it.
 
Inbreeding do have some consequences. If the animals weren't best quality to begin with, you're screwed. Immunity systems could be shot to heck and you'll give up some pounds in these types of mating.
 
If you have lousy animals, whether you inbreed or not you're probably going to have problems...

About the hybrid vigor being held low with a high IBC% mating, for first timers... well I'm not so sure about that.. The first timer that had to have a C section had an IBC of 25% and an AVK of 56.6%.. Calf's maternal grandmother was the calf's sire's full sister, and the mother had the same sire as grandsire.. There were no crazy birthweights in that family (a reason I kept the sire as a bull), Mother wasn't fat.. BCS of about 5, and the (heifer) calf was 110 lbs. All the rest of the calves from that bull have so far also been to at least half siblings, and the calves were between 70-90 lbs (below herd average). I figure I got thrown a curveball, things wouldn't have been any better had she been bred to the Limo.. He gave me 3 close calls last year on first timers.
 
Nesikep":3s04ieqf said:
If you have lousy animals, whether you inbreed or not you're probably going to have problems...

About the hybrid vigor being held low with a high IBC% mating, for first timers... well I'm not so sure about that.. The first timer that had to have a C section had an IBC of 25% and an AVK of 56.6%.. Calf's maternal grandmother was the calf's sire's full sister, and the mother had the same sire as grandsire.. There were no crazy birthweights in that family (a reason I kept the sire as a bull), Mother wasn't fat.. BCS of about 5, and the (heifer) calf was 110 lbs. All the rest of the calves from that bull have so far also been to at least half siblings, and the calves were between 70-90 lbs (below herd average). I figure I got thrown a curveball, things wouldn't have been any better had she been bred to the Limo.. He gave me 3 close calls last year on first timers.
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All in the genes. Early cull rates can be high. You found one to cull. Nobody said it was easy. If it was, then Walmart would sell it and Select Sires and ABS would be doing it. One good line from GA has ideal cattle but some tend to have small pelvic area if bred into height cattle. So, you have to know the good and the bad, cull the bad or learn it trying.
 

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