I got bamboozled!

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AldacoCattle

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We recently bought an angus bull from a breeder in East Texas. He told us the bull was registered and we paid registered bull price. He said the registration would arrive in the mail but it never did. 🫤 we run a commercial operation so it really doesn't affect us but i wanted to see the bulls EPDs!! Rookie mistake for us. Make sure it doesn't happen to those of you just starting. Lesson learned.

Rant over! ✌🏽
 
We recently bought an angus bull from a breeder in East Texas. He told us the bull was registered and we paid registered bull price. He said the registration would arrive in the mail but it never did. 🫤 we run a commercial operation so it really doesn't affect us but i wanted to see the bulls EPDs!! Rookie mistake for us. Make sure it doesn't happen to those of you just starting. Lesson learned.

Rant over! ✌🏽
Painful lesson
 
The USPS isn't very efficient, try calling whom ever. It may have been sent and it's lost. Happens to us all the time
 
Ask him for the AAA registration number. If he does not follow through - I would be sure to post his name/farm name on Facebook "nicely" stating he has not followed through with the registration papers. And - I would "tag" him in the post. Bet you see some results IF the bull is actually a registered bull.
 
I have been persistent. He finally replied saying he will send them this week. We'll see.
We had the same problem with a lady buying a Kune kune we finally received the paperwork. l am new to this. I bought a red poll bull and had no problem getting the paperwork. But could you tell me why l need the EPD's before l buy anymore cattle just so l understand all this. Please thank you all. Still learning ?
 
I would think the registration number would be the first thing shared with you when you had an interest in the bull. His EPDs are easily viewed on the AAA website by anyone who cares to look. Call again and ask for the registration number. You can see his numbers and you will also see if the bull has transferred into your name. The owner should also be able to easily supply you with all information he reported to the Angus improvement records. Things like actual birth and weaning weights and how those numbers compared to the herd averages. You may need to be a member to see that data, but assuming he is a member, everything is available to the breeder assuming he reported it. Any reputable seed-stock producer, should be reporting. I wouldn't bother waiting around for papers. I would insist on knowing his registration number right now. With that information anyone knowledgeable about Angus could look him up and analyze his numbers.
 
We had the same problem with a lady buying a Kune kune we finally received the paperwork. l am new to this. I bought a red poll bull and had no problem getting the paperwork. But could you tell me why l need the EPD's before l buy anymore cattle just so l understand all this. Please thank you all. Still learning ?
EPD's tell you how a bull compares to others within his breed. There is also a chart known as "Across Breed Adjustments" that can help you compare those numbers to other breeds of cattle. I don't see the Red Poll included in that chart, so I would assume there is not enough data available to make a relevant comparison.

The Data is really only as good as the information turned in. If they are based on limited data, they may not mean much. The American Angus association is ahead of most breeds in providing reliable data, simply because of the amount of data that is available. Their website includes a chart that tells you what the numbers mean and how they compare to the average of the breed. In addition, when you look up an individual animal, you will see three or more numbers for each EPD.
* The top number is the actual EPD.
* Below that is a percentage that indicates the accuracy you might expect of that EPD. For example, a .99 would indicate an animal with thousands of entries of data, including many descendants reported by multiple sources, and a high expectation that the number is reliable. .35 probably means there is data from actual numbers for the animal themselves, their parents, and probably a DNA analysis. The numbers are likely to change as more data arrives. .05 usually means the only data reported is just from that animal itself, such as birth and weaning weight. There is a high probability of EPD's changing. No number shown means there is no data available to make a determination.
* The third number may be the most important, assuming the accuracy is there. It shows you were this animal stands against his contemporaries in the breed. A low number indicates he is above the average for the breed in that trait. For example a 10% means he is expected to produce in the top 10% of the breed, while a 90% would tell you that 90% of animals in the breed had a more favorable score.
* Below that number is a number that tells you how many progeny have had data turned in.
 
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I should add that an animal with the most favorable score, as indicated by that third number, may not actually be the best animal for your situation. For example, an animal in the top 10% for height, weight, or milking ability, may be the worse choice for someone whose cattle make a living in range conditions.
 
Was he a legit registered Angus breeder or just a trader.
I would think that any Angus breeder would share the registration number and or show you the paper.
It may be a situation where somebody like a trader bought a bull through the sale ring and didn't get the registration transferred to them and therefore they can't transfer it.
Could be too that they are just slow to do the transfers, but that's kind of inexcusable because all it amounts to if the animal is already registered is signing it and filling out the buyers name and address and sending it to the association.
Most breeders are willing to provide you with any information they have about the bull and and answer any questions.
Someone that had bought the bull from their use and selling him afterwards should still be able to transfer the registration to you provided it was transferred to them when they purchased the bull.
 

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