hypothetical query

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spoon

spoon

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Since Murray Greys are a mix of Angus and Shorthorn what would be a good breed bull to run on Murry cows? Black hide sells best around here but I really don't care for Angus cattle. I really like the looks of the Murray Greys so what would be a good cross to get good heterosis, black hides, low birth weight, etc? Would a Gelbvieh or maybe Braunvieh make a good cross? Anybody crossing these and got pics? I'm eventually gonna get some cows and I'd prefer to get the right ones for me the first time.
 
That's what I was kinda thinking but I wanted to hear and maybe see what others think or are doing. I'm just assuming that cross would throw a black calf.
 
spoon":1yu7i7k0 said:
That's what I was kinda thinking but I wanted to hear and maybe see what others think or are doing. I'm just assuming that cross would throw a black calf.
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If the bull is homozygous black you should get black calves. I think they can DNA test for coat color now. Be sure you ask when you're looking at bulls.
 
spoon":13sfykhx said:
Since Murray Greys are a mix of Angus and Shorthorn what would be a good breed bull to run on Murry cows? Black hide sells best around here but I really don't care for Angus cattle. I really like the looks of the Murray Greys so what would be a good cross to get good heterosis, black hides, low birth weight, etc? Would a Gelbvieh or maybe Braunvieh make a good cross? Anybody crossing these and got pics? I'm eventually gonna get some cows and I'd prefer to get the right ones for me the first time.
Click to expand...
In reading your post, I see that you state the following:
1- Black hide sells best around here.
2- I don't care for Angus cattle. (Why?)
3- You want good heterosis, black hides, low birth weights.
4- You question Gelbvieh or Braunvieh for a bull to cross on Murray Greys - both breeds of which would be acceptable.

With the discussion of Irish Blacks being on the Forum just recently, and the Postage Stamp Ad on the CattleToday front page right edge, In My Opinion - IRISH BLACKS would answer your requirements better than those you have mentioned. Just my observations of what the IB cattle really are!

Click on the little ad and give them some thought. And check on their DNA also!

DOC HARRIS
 
We had some Angus back in the late 60s and they were plum mean. Plus we couldn't keep them in our fields and back then we had good almost new wove wire fences everywhere. I'm sure the Angus of today are a totally different animal from the ones we had back then but I got tired of trying to chase them back home. :D
Also, and the kid in me is going to show here, everyone around here has tried to get me to go with Angus cattle. I am sick of hearing about them. I want to be different and I haven't found anyone local with Murrys. In fact most of the cattle people I have talked to have never heard of them. I like that. I've always been this way and it usaually ends up costing me something in the long run but that's what makes life interesting. I did look at the Irish Blacks awhile back. Nice looking animals, I had forgotten about them. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Not tryin to talk you into anything but just read all yours posts here. You want all the benefits of Angus or Angus Derivatives. But you dont want Angus because they were mean in the 60's, and your friends think you should get Angus.
For one thing Angus is not the same breed as in the 60's. Mine are all like pets never a problem. I've been kicked two times in 20 years. I also raise and sell bulls. to date only one of them has ever been agressive. Sounds like you really want an Angus but dont want to admit it. Make sure that you make a sound business choice rather than an emotional one.
 
Avalon I don't know enough about the different breeds good points and bad to know the good points of them. The only thing I am sure of is that black hide sells best around here. Although I'd like to come close to breaking even some day I'm mainly interested in raising my own beef, getting a tax break, and hopefully get the grandsons interested in the farm so I'm gonna go with something that is pleasing to my eye that will meet my requirements. Now beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I'm sure a lot of people like the looks of Angus cattle. They look like $$$$ to hardcore *crusty* farmer/ranchers but to me I just see black. I don't care for black cars, clothes, hats, etc so of course I'm not crazy about black cows. I do however like the Murrys, Highlands, Pinzgauer, Belted Galloways (I know black but they have a cool white belt), Longhorns, Shorthorns, and some others with some color to them. I'll prolly end up with Highlands just because the wife and I think they are cool looking and they have a reputation for being people friendly as well as tastey. But I admit a Murry/something black cross does interest me and if I ever decide to try to raise cows for the sale barn that's what I'll prolly try to raise. That was the reason I posted my query as a *hypothetical* question. I appreciate your input.
 
I see where you're coming from Spoon. You want whats best to sell, but you want something different too. I too get so tired of hearing Angus this Angus that that it makes me not want any, even though we run brangus type mommas with hereford bulls. Yes they pay well, but sometimes a man just wants something different.
 
I don't like black either and the sale barn drives me mad with black this and yellow that. We run beefmaster with every color imaginable, what premium we lose in hide we generally make up for in weight. We have proven time and time again to our neighbors that beefmasters achieve greater results on matching inputs than any breed in our area. I do try to make them solid red but at least 20-30% are painted up which I like looking at anyway, so I keep all my paint girls. The kid in me likes cows to be individuals in character and appearance, but with DNA testing I can pick out a bull which consistently throws calves of solid color either black or red. This gives me calves uniform in appearance and once they are sold I still have my pretty colored up cows. I 've heard the Black Angus group has gotten tired of 50% black hide requirements for Angus certification allowing every one to ride their coat tails, and DNA testing could become part of certification requirements. So just being black may not be enough to reap Angus premiums anymore.
 
I would have to agree with Keren on this one. I have no problem with angus, but they won't give you as much heterosis, since MGs already have angus in them. I would be very cautious about Braunvieh and pick a very low BW bull if you go that route. I can envision the shorthorn/braunvieh interaction producing some big BW calves with big heads. I have no idea about gelbvieh, probably would be OK though. Just my opinion.
 
That is a good looking calf Keren. Thanks for the input. More food for thought.
 
I think if you picked a continental bull (your choice), you'd be very pleased with the growth of the calves.

As with any breed, where you market makes a difference...... in this area the salebarn drastically discounts the belted galloways as much as longhorns (practically giveaway prices).
 
PB SIMMENTAL

ABS--- RED BULL --- LOOK AT BEEFMAKER OR HOOKS SHEAR FORCE

SELECT SIRES -- BLACK BULL --- LOOK AT TNT JUMPSTART

ABS --- BLACK BULL --- LOOK AT LUCKY ONE 686K

ABS --- BLACK SIMANGUS HOMOZYGOUS POLLED AND BLACK --- LOOK AT STARZ

ALL GOOD CALVING EASE BULLS -- GOOD WW'S GOOD YW'S

THE SIMANGUS STARZ HAS MARBLING EPD'S OFF THE CHARTS
 
Well if you like murray grey cattle so much why don't you get a murray grey bull. Some different black breeds are Angugs, Black Limosuin, and Simmetal. I'd looke into the Simmetal. Jsut my thoughts.
 
We have quite a few different types of commercial cows here on our ranch, and we have been crossing them on Murray Grey bulls for the past few years and we are absolutely falling in love with the Murray Greys. We have some Angus cows, Simmentals, Charolais, Herefords, Shorthorn, and Limousin, and though they all cross great with the Murray Grey bulls, in my opinion the Simmentals probable cross the best. Beautiful, growthy calves that are long, deep, and wide.

I know that a lot of the breeds I mentioned have come a long ways from 50 years ago when they used to run wild on the range, but our nicest mannered Angus cow is probably slightly worse than our worst mannered Murray Grey, they just plain aren't as calm and easy going. The calves out of the Angus cows and Murray Grey bulls grow just as good as the other crosses too, which is kinda surprising to me because of the heterosis factor, Angus being an ancestor to the Murray Grey. Anyway, I just saw you were thinking of possibly getting some Murray Grey cows and wanted to let you know we are really impressed with them. And you can get black calves really easy out of them too.

I would like to hear how the Murray Grey crosses with the Gelbvieh if anyone has tried it?
 
Pine Creek Ranch":2wnohh33 said:
We have quite a few different types of commercial cows here on our ranch, and we have been crossing them on Murray Grey bulls for the past few years and we are absolutely falling in love with the Murray Greys. We have some Angus cows, Simmentals, Charolais, Herefords, Shorthorn, and Limousin, and though they all cross great with the Murray Grey bulls, in my opinion the Simmentals probable cross the best. Beautiful, growthy calves that are long, deep, and wide.

I know that a lot of the breeds I mentioned have come a long ways from 50 years ago when they used to run wild on the range, but our nicest mannered Angus cow is probably slightly worse than our worst mannered Murray Grey, they just plain aren't as calm and easy going. The calves out of the Angus cows and Murray Grey bulls grow just as good as the other crosses too, which is kinda surprising to me because of the heterosis factor, Angus being an ancestor to the Murray Grey. Anyway, I just saw you were thinking of possibly getting some Murray Grey cows and wanted to let you know we are really impressed with them. And you can get black calves really easy out of them too.

I would like to hear how the Murray Grey crosses with the Gelbvieh if anyone has tried it?
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. This is our third calf crop of Murray Grey X Angus calves and to this point, we haven't had a single black calf out of about 80 calves. May just be our bull but most of our calves look (color wise) like angus x charolais.
 
Gberry, what color of Murray Grey bulls are you using? We have used a silver Murray Grey bull and you are correct, not one black calf out of our Angus cows, however, if you use a dark grey Murray Grey bull you will get more black calves. This depends on the bulls genetics, too, but we usually get at least 50% black calves out of Angus cows and a Murray Grey bull (thats not black). We are trying a black Murray Grey bull this year and we'll see if that number goes up.
 

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