How to pick them keepers and do less culling?

aplusmnt

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Southeast Kansas
Heard lots of talk about culling those cows, that are not easy keepers. Or those that will not make it on your grass (fescue etc..) or climate.

But curious how a person, can minimize the need to cull and what things or ways you go about picking them heifers or Cows that are most likely easy keepers? What you look for, where do you look for them at? etc....

Basically some Picking Cows/heifers 101 advice?
 
for me i have a mental ranking of each cow. i only consider keeping the heifers out of the very best cows. there are some cows that i will never save a replacement from but raise good calves each year and still earn their keep. so they stick around.

dont be fooled by a cow that keeps her condition well but is skimping in the milking department.

your most fertile cows will tend to be the ones that have the calves first, unless you keep open ones around. some cows are fertile enough they will keep getting earlier and earlier if you let them.

so basically i look at mom first, then if the heifer passes visual appraisal she gets to hang around. if she breeds on time, has a calf unassisted and raises it well, and breeds back she gets to hang around until she culls herself.
 
Makes sense Beefy, I was also interested in how a person picks them when they go to sales, or private farms when you are buying them replacements from another source.
 
private treaty, again, i'd suggest looking at the dams. other sales you just gotta go with your gut and eye and mostly your experience.
 
I agree with beefy, priviate treaty is the most effective means of purchasing cattle. You can look at what kind of operation and seed stock they come from and you have alot more time to evaluate them. Occasionaly I've got good stock at the salebarn but for the most part I've only gotten regrets. I'm sure there are those with more experience that can pick them better at the barn, but I'm not one of them!
 
Caustic Burno":27k4nlay said:
Aplus in the past I always bought 3n1's as I wanted to see the cow in her work clothes, and only bought the ones with heifers on there sides.

A very good approach for an experienced buyer.
 
I would buy either way if it was what I was looking for and I could afford it at the time. You can get good and bad deals both ways. But each time your going get a little better.
As far as picking an individual animal at a sale barn. Try to get there before the sale and watch them being unloaded, spend some time on the catwalks observing them in the pens. You will be surprized on how many things you see have been mentioned right here on these boards.
 
When I buy I look for every flaw you can find and every cow has flaws no perfect cow. When you loose your critical eye you are fixing to loose money. This is not a nice business anyone that can not walk in there pasture and objectively look at the herd and take a critical eye from themselves or others is cheating themselves. I look for flaws my bull will correct or cows that will correct the current bulls flaws.
Remember this is about your next generation of cattle that you will retain and you want it to be better than the last generation. Taking small steps to correct each generation the leaps are what cause the train wrecks and you really loose your butt.
 
My Cow 101 :)

Cow:

- Good feet. Claws of similar size that point ahead. Should be some space between them. Hoof should have some depth on the back part, and the pastern needs to have some flex to it to provide cushion when walking.

- I want to see the legs under the cow. When she stands, I don't want to see the back legs sticking out at an angle like a show horse.

- tail head not attached too far forward. I like to see the tail hanging straight down, not curved around. This usually means the anus is positioned too far foward and there can be fecal contamination in the vulva. The anus should be straight up from the vulva.

- The pins should be lower than the hooks. There have been studies that show a negative correlation between between high pins and calving interval. Over the years, the pins will rise slightly on each calving. Get them too high, and the animal stands a greater chance of coming in open. Also, the higher the pins, the more likely an animal is to stand with her legs behind her.

- I want some space between the pins. More space here generally means more room in the birthing canal. I also want some space between the hooks and pins.

- Generally, I want to see some overall width and length in the hind end. I breed Shorthorns and the shows ruined the good beef shorthorns by reducing muscling and width. The Shorthorn breed in general doesn't have a problem with maternal traits, so increasing muscling in the hind end is not going to harm our milking or fertility. Not too much muscling though. I don't want my cows looking like bulls. Its all about balance.

- I want both depth and width throughout. On my ranch, it gets cool in the winter, so they need some rib for fat storage. I like to see a healthy amount of brisket as well.

- The neck should flow smoothy into the shoulders and then thicken up quickly into the ribs, ending in a solid hind end. If the hind end is smaller than the front quarters, I don't want the animal.

- a good bag is a given. I don't hunt for huge bags or lots of milk, as I've found that cows that don't deliver as much milk will often deliver higher quality milk. Again, its all about balance.

Caustic gave you some good advice, vis-a-vis checking the cow over when picking heifers, however, don't let a bad cow turn you away from a crackerjack of a heifer either. The bull has alot to do with as well. My father has 3 junk cows here that throw the worst steers every year, yet their heifers are almost always keepers, and we've got a few in the herd that produce extremely well. When he's not looking, the cows are still leaving because they need to produce every year 8)

A trick on picking good milking heifers: Check the folds of skin as they come off the bag. The further the folds (bag) stretch up the back of the heifer, the better milking that animal will be.

I'm sure there is more that I missed, but that should give you a start.

Rod
 
A major thing to look for is reproductive and milking organs. Not many people do it, but go look at the vulvas on your heifers. Huge variation in size or even existence. Lotta dang nice looking heifers but when they lift their tail they just don't have the tools to get the job done. I've seen 6 month old heifers with better development than mature cows. Everybody wants a bull to have big cods and a breeding soundness exam. I don't want to set my heifers or bulls up for failure because the heifers just weren't capable of recieving the bull.
 
Never be afraid to come home with an empty trailer...
Love to have the bride with me but she's a buyer who hates to leave without at least one in the trailer.
Always more cows next week.
DMc
 
If I'm going to a purebred sale, I check each animal ON PAPER. I eliminate anything that is calving outside my calving dates. I pull their records at the ASA site & check for previous calves. Not everyone reports all calves, but if there is any info, you can see if she's calving 12 month intervals. Eliminate anything that skips a season. If they are born in the spring, I want them bred or calving as 2 yr old in spring.
If their is any pedigree you REALLY don't want, eliminate them.
Than, when you go to the sale, no matter how good they look or how cheap - don't buy if they didn't fit your program at home.
 
OOPS, :shock: #2 mentions the dreaded % of brahman blood.

2. Buy crossbred females (unless you raise purebred seedstock). They benefit from heterosis and usually remain in production a long time. If you are in a hot area (along the Gulf Coast or south Texas), you probably want a percentage of Brahman blood in your cows.

Naw, ;-) other than that seems like a good list to go by.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":wqeae6gj said:
If I'm going to a purebred sale, I check each animal ON PAPER. I eliminate anything that is calving outside my calving dates. I pull their records at the ASA site & check for previous calves. Not everyone reports all calves, but if there is any info, you can see if she's calving 12 month intervals. Eliminate anything that skips a season. If they are born in the spring, I want them bred or calving as 2 yr old in spring.
If their is any pedigree you REALLY don't want, eliminate them.
Than, when you go to the sale, no matter how good they look or how cheap - don't buy if they didn't fit your program at home.

Good suggestion! Never thought of looking up the animals at sales on Web page.
 
Caustic Burno":1rdruwh2 said:
Aplus in the past I always bought 3n1's as I wanted to see the cow in her work clothes, and only bought the ones with heifers on there sides.

We've done that twice ( 3in1's ). Now have 4 of our best cows and a great heifer calf and maybe maybe a herd bull down the road. Probably the very best way to build a good cow herd, especially for relatively new folks.

Ours were pb so we could look at epd's too but even commercial cows it's nice to actually see momma workin and what her calves look like. ( And to walk up to them and see they are not killers ).

Nice to have the AI rebreeding already done too if you buy them guaranteed.

Worth a little extra cost I think.
 

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