How many bulls?

[denvermartinfarms]

I've always ran cows in herds of no more than 30 head and put 1 bull in each herd. I'm getting a deal that's going to be all one place just perimeter fenced that will run about 100 to 120 cows all in one herd, should I still figure 1 bull per 30 or does having multiple bulls working on the same herd change my ratio?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've always ran cows in herds of no more than 30 head and put 1 bull in each herd. I'm getting a deal that's going to be all one place just perimeter fenced that will run about 100 to 120 cows all in one herd, should I still figure 1 bull per 30 or does having multiple bulls working on the same herd change my ratio?

Seasonal breeding or year around.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I've always ran cows in herds of no more than 30 head and put 1 bull in each herd. I'm getting a deal that's going to be all one place just perimeter fenced that will run about 100 to 120 cows all in one herd, should I still figure 1 bull per 30 or does having multiple bulls working on the same herd change my ratio?

Seasonal breeding or year around.

Year round, I'll never pull the bulls out, the first time around they will all calve in a 60 day window, but you know how it will be the second time around.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've always ran cows in herds of no more than 30 head and put 1 bull in each herd. I'm getting a deal that's going to be all one place just perimeter fenced that will run about 100 to 120 cows all in one herd, should I still figure 1 bull per 30 or does having multiple bulls working on the same herd change my ratio?

Seasonal breeding or year around.

Year round, I'll never pull the bulls out, the first time around they will all calve in a 60 day window, but you know how it will be the second time around.

OK I have never had that many head but have watched a neighbor that does closely.
He runs three for about 10 more than you. He has 3, he runs a 3yr old 2 yr old and a yearling bull.
Doesn't have all the bull fights. When the older bull reaches 4 he moves him to his heifer pasture.
The next year the old bull gets sold and he takes that money and buys a new yearling.
They are pretty wore out when he sells them but gets his cows covered.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

That's interesting CB, thanks.

 

[Kingfisher]

It depends... I would say 4 since you don't have any X fencing. Why not spend the bull money on facility and AI some of em ?

 

[3waycross]

OK I have never had that many head but have watched a neighbor that does closely.
He runs three for about 10 more than you. He has 3, he runs a 3yr old 2 yr old and a yearling bull.
Doesn't have all the bull fights. When the older bull reaches 4 he moves him to his heifer pasture.The next year the old bull gets sold and he takes that money and buys a new yearling.
They are pretty wore out when he sells them but gets his cows covered.[/quote]


He must run really small bulls. It stands to reason that the 4yr old would be as big as he's gonna get and would be awful hard on heifers by 4.

 

[Kingfisher]

He must run really small bulls. It stands to reason that the 4yr old would be as big as he's gonna get and would be awful hard on heifers by 4.[/quote]
He's in Texas....he don't have sissy heifers!..... So your insinuating a 4 yr old Bull is gonna breakdown or hurt his heifers and that can't be good? CB didn't suggest that. He says he's watched this program close and seen it work.......;(. Your picking Peyton aren't ya?!?

 

[John SD]

Sound mature bulls 2+ yr old bulls should be able to service 30 - 40 cows. IMO, too many bulls is worse than too few. Too many bulls, especially young bulls, are injured fighting over one cow and then are out at least for the rest of the season or permanently.

Personally, I would pull the bulls out after 60 days, test and cull any open cows. Leaving bulls in with the cows year round only leads to calving year round. Which is the opposite of what you want to do if your goals are to enhance both maternal fertility and "peas-in-a-pod" uniformity in your calves.

This winter weather many are experiencing should be a reality check to anyone considering leaving bulls in year round. -50 wind chills with snow on the ground is just NOT my idea of pleasant calving weather. Even with the current -10 nights are mostly calm and pleasant, a calf could still wilt down if he didn't get up and going right away

The last few years I owned cattle I moved calving to late April - early May calving start. Branded in late June/early July and doped calves for flies at same time. Doped flies again in Sept at fall shot time.

IMO, calving on green grass beats calving in a snowbank any day of the year. :banana: :banana: :banana:

 

[denvermartinfarms]

It depends... I would say 4 since you don't have any X fencing. Why not spend the bull money on facility and AI some of em ?

I can't cross fence any of the place because I don't own it and the owner doesn't want anything but outside fences. I will build a set of pens but that's all I can do. And I don't have time to catch cows to AI. I know it's not an ideal situation, but I think it may be worth it to be able to run another 120 momma cows.

 

[Brute 23]

No more than 3

 

[denvermartinfarms]

No more than 3

Thanks, I had been thinking 4, but I'll probably go with 3 and see how it go's.

 

[John SD]

When the older bull reaches 4 he moves him to his heifer pasture.

I've always done the opposite. Buy a yearling bull with good BW EPDs and use him on heifers until he is about 4.

Then use him on cows for a couple more years if I can still stand to have him around that long. My reason for moving the bull from heifers to older cows in that order, is that some of the heifers to breed are his own daughters.

I would not say a 4 yr old bull is "too big" for most heifers. If he is alone with the heifers with no other competing bulls, a mature bull seems to have fairly decent manners with the young ladies. Decent manners for a bull, that is! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Brute 23]

I try to stay 1-40 but I have seen guys push it up more because they had an odd number and didn't want to mess with smith bull.

 

[Caustic Burno]

OK I have never had that many head but have watched a neighbor that does closely.
He runs three for about 10 more than you. He has 3, he runs a 3yr old 2 yr old and a yearling bull.
Doesn't have all the bull fights. When the older bull reaches 4 he moves him to his heifer pasture.The next year the old bull gets sold and he takes that money and buys a new yearling.
They are pretty wore out when he sells them but gets his cows covered.

He must run really small bulls. It stands to reason that the 4yr old would be as big as he's gonna get and would be awful hard on heifers by 4.[/quote]

He was running Brangus and a Hereford the new boy that he brought in is a Char.
Dang I guess I better get rid of Obama he is four and on dang near all the heifers around here.
The SH breeder brings his heifers to bred by him as well as several FFA projects.
I put him on five I bought this year. Still kickin myself in the ass.

 

[Kingfisher]

It depends... I would say 4 since you don't have any X fencing. Why not spend the bull money on facility and AI some of em ?

I can't cross fence any of the place because I don't own it and the owner doesn't want anything but outside fences. I will build a set of pens but that's all I can do. And I don't have time to catch cows to AI. I know it's not an ideal situation, but I think it may be worth it to be able to run another 120 momma cows.

Yea but even if the " owner" says he doesn't want this or that you have to do what you think is right from a management stand. You still are looking for a great calf crop and you need to do what ever it takes from the get go to achieve that weather its one two or 4 bulls or cross fencing or AI......right? If you have 100 cows to breed just look at it as it is and do whatever you think will set you up so you can manage it 8 months down the road. I hope that make sense. KISS Keep it simple.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

It depends... I would say 4 since you don't have any X fencing. Why not spend the bull money on facility and AI some of em ?

I can't cross fence any of the place because I don't own it and the owner doesn't want anything but outside fences. I will build a set of pens but that's all I can do. And I don't have time to catch cows to AI. I know it's not an ideal situation, but I think it may be worth it to be able to run another 120 momma cows.

Yea but even if the " owner" says he doesn't want this or that you have to do what you think is right from a management stand. You still are looking for a great calf crop and you need to do what ever it takes from the get go to achieve that weather its one two or 4 bulls or cross fencing or AI......right? If you have 100 cows to breed just look at it as it is and do whatever you think will set you up so you can manage it 8 months down the road. I hope that make sense. KISS Keep it simple.

I'll probably just use 3 bulls and be done with it, since I have direct orders from the guy I'm leasing it from not to build any fence. This isn't the deal I was talking about a while back where we put all the longhorns on the big place, I'm building fence on that one slowly but surely .

 

[Caustic Burno]

The guy that bought next to me is big money has 3 ranches with a manger and hands.
Where I used to be staring at woods is pasture. He bought a Hereford off me and a SH off the neighbor.
I get to watch some interesting stuff.

 

[Isomade]

I've always ran cows in herds of no more than 30 head and put 1 bull in each herd. I'm getting a deal that's going to be all one place just perimeter fenced that will run about 100 to 120 cows all in one herd, should I still figure 1 bull per 30 or does having multiple bulls working on the same herd change my ratio?

If it were me, I would run 4 bulls putting them in 2 at a time for no more than a month. I run bulls up until a month before calving then pull them so I don't get my calving moved backwards. I cull and late breads and replace with cows that fit my calving interval.

 

[Kingfisher]

Direct orders are DO I'm sure sure you'll do what the land owner wants or expects plus some DMF. Carry on. You picking Denver too ? >)