How are you considering claw and angle epds?

[hornedfrogbbq]

Are you all putting much weight on the claw and angle epds (see how punny i am)? I have been happily surprised on the bulls we have used previously and their good scores there but one of my "marbling" bulls i was thinking about using in our AI program has TERRIBLE numbers. That might explain the 2 feet of hay he is standing in for all his pictures.

Thoughts?

 

[CreekAngus]

Not....they need more data.

 

[Ebenezer]

I just know that some folks will not tell about feet and if they don't or hide them in hay in AI propaganda so never think that you missed anything good. I've thrown that semen out of the tank. This will seem harsh but if AAA had the want-to, any animal scored below a certain % on convenience traits (not production as they are messed up in a lot of ways) should be removed from the breed. That would cure a lot of lingering ills. Go ahead and put in a teat and udder score and clean that up, too. But like the greatness of Hoover Dam and his below exciting EPD for HP (79% accuracy) yet with users' praises, the EPDs are not so good either in part or in whole. The thing that I cannot figure is how can the greatest cow show on earth (AAA) have such a flawed EPD system and include faulty animals and yet be so proud of being #1? There is barn blindness but the worst is ego and pride and money focus to keep folks blind all of the time and outside of the barn as well.

I think you had better see to know for now.

 

[Stickney94]

Not....they need more data.

Yeah, if you look at the #s submitted for some of those animals there are very few actual data points of submitted scores. I forget what the full formula is for scoring but I think it is one that will continue to shift substantially.

 

[CreekAngus]

Not....they need more data.

Yeah, if you look at the #s submitted for some of those animals there are very few actual data points of submitted scores. I forget what the full formula is for scoring but I think it is one that will continue to shift substantially.

Crouthamel Protocol is shown to be horrible in foot epds but I know for a fact that he throws progeny with great feet. You're right for the next years the formula will continue to shift.

 

[CreekAngus]

I think the AAA missed the mark on all of the most recent additions to EPD's. Whose to say claw and angle define whether an animal has poor feet or passes on bad feet? There's more to sound feet than claw and angle. Don't even get me started on $M, which is based on regurgitated numbers, which makes the $C and absolute joke. Recently I seen an ad by Select Sires for their highest $C bulls, not a single one of those bulls is Angus worthy, in my opinion, just carcass Wagyu bulls. You want to know who throws bad feet, ask around.

 

[Bright Raven]

There is a thread on the new AAA foot EPD:

https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=119808

 

[Stickney94]

Whose to say claw and angle define whether an animal has poor feet or passes on bad feet? There's more to sound feet than claw and angle.

I almost asked this question in my earlier post so I'm glad you are skeptical as well. I really think sole toughness and hoof hardiness are factors and what is good/bad may vary greatly from the arid west to wetter and colder regions of the country.

 

[Ebenezer]

Whose to say claw and angle define whether an animal has poor feet or passes on bad feet? There's more to sound feet than claw and angle.

I almost asked this question in my earlier post so I'm glad you are skeptical as well. I really think sole toughness and hoof hardiness are factors and what is good/bad may vary greatly from the arid west to wetter and colder regions of the country.

As well as structural/skeletal correctness.

 

[CreekAngus]

Whose to say claw and angle define whether an animal has poor feet or passes on bad feet? There's more to sound feet than claw and angle.

I almost asked this question in my earlier post so I'm glad you are skeptical as well. I really think sole toughness and hoof hardiness are factors and what is good/bad may vary greatly from the arid west to wetter and colder regions of the country.

Amen, who cares about angle and claw if they have soft feet! EPDs are only good until you call other breeders and really find out what is being produced and who is using who. Out west you're going to see a lot of different sire groups than you will see in the heartland and out east.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Whose to say claw and angle define whether an animal has poor feet or passes on bad feet? There's more to sound feet than claw and angle.

I almost asked this question in my earlier post so I'm glad you are skeptical as well. I really think sole toughness and hoof hardiness are factors and what is good/bad may vary greatly from the arid west to wetter and colder regions of the country.

As well as structural/skeletal correctness.

Don't think it would hurt none if they would of thrown hock angle in with the score then worked up from there. Don't need anymore sickle hocked angus around.