horned hereford

[Dee]

I am going to a sale this weekend to possibly purchase 30 hd. of angus x hereford cows. They are bred to a horned hereford bull.... first question....why would someone use a horned hereford vs. a polled? Next question, how many of these will look hereford? How many will have horns? Has anyone used "horn paste"? The guy at the tractor supply said you just put a dab on when they are a day or two old and no horns grow, can you tell if it'll have horns that soon? Sorry for all the questions... not much cow experience, and NO hereford experience!

 

[ollie]

Dee,
Can you give me the name and phone number of your banker?

 

[dun]

I am going to a sale this weekend to possibly purchase 30 hd. of angus x hereford cows. They are bred to a horned hereford bull.... first question....why would someone use a horned hereford vs. a polled? Next question, how many of these will look hereford? How many will have horns? Has anyone used "horn paste"? The guy at the tractor supply said you just put a dab on when they are a day or two old and no horns grow, can you tell if it'll have horns that soon? Sorry for all the questions... not much cow experience, and NO hereford experience!

The horn issue and color issue depends a lot on how "angus" the "angus" part of the equation is.
If they're truly angus, they'll be polled and unless they carry a recessive red gene, the calves will be black. They'll be baldys, but the amount of white on the face can run anywhere from a wide place, brockle, frecled, eye patched to full Hereford looking face. I also wouldn't expect much other white except maybe a little on the udder/scrotum area, and for some strange reason, maybe the tip of the tail.
If the "angus" part is really just some black cows that maybe a mixtue, you could anything from those above to a full red Hereford looking calf with horns.
There are some that feel the the horned Hereford is superior to the polled. Just as there are those that don;t think elvis is dead or that men walked on the moon.
You aren't going to be able to tell the horn status for a week or two. By then you can feel the little pointy bumps.

dun

 

[Frankie]

I am going to a sale this weekend to possibly purchase 30 hd. of angus x hereford cows. They are bred to a horned hereford bull.... first question....why would someone use a horned hereford vs. a polled? Next question, how many of these will look hereford? How many will have horns? Has anyone used "horn paste"? The guy at the tractor supply said you just put a dab on when they are a day or two old and no horns grow, can you tell if it'll have horns that soon? Sorry for all the questions... not much cow experience, and NO hereford experience!

To produce horned calves, both parents must carry the horn gene. If the cows are straightbred Angus, they shouldn't be carrying a horn gene and you shouldn't get calves with horns. (Notice the shouldn't.) Some people love their Horned Herefords and won't give them up. You'll probably get black baldy calves (solid black w/white faces like Herefords) from this cross. In many regions, those are popular calves at the sale barn and popular for replacement heifers.

Sorry I can't help with the "paste", though I remember my dad used it years ago. I think it's caustic and can cause the cows some problems if they try to lick it off the calf. I'd read the label or talk to a vet before I used it on newborn calves. Good luck....

BTW, don't pay any attention to Ollie. He's such a joker ;-)

 

[sidney411]

Well Dee, I would say that they will all have the white face and some will have the other white spots on the mane, legs, brisket. It depends on if the momma is herford looking or a baldie. If she is red then the calf will be red, if she is a baldie then more then likely the calf will be too. If the momma has horns then the calf will have horns since the sire was horned. If momma is polled then the calf will more then likely be polled. I have never used the paste. You can feel the horn if it is going to be horned. The head will have more of a square shape rather then a round shape.

Sorry my answers aren't very good, but it is the way I understand it to be.

 

[txag]

ok, seems like maybe i'm reading your post different than some of the other responses. if the cows you're looking at are hereford/angus cows, they should all be polled, black baldies (if the angus are really angus & homozygous polled, homozygous black). the baldie pattern will vary from total bald face to coon eyes to brockle or mottle-faced.

if these cows are then bred to a horned hereford bull the calves will be 3/4 hereford 1/4 angus and you would expect half of the calves to be black and the other half of the calves to be red with more of the white "hereford" markings than their dams. depending on whether the original hereford in question (the cows' sire) was homozyous polled, heterezygous polled or horned will determine whether or not any of the cows carry the horned gene and in turn whether or not the calves will be horned.

good luck with your purchase.

 

[Bez]

Dee

why would someone use a horned hereford vs. a polled?

Hmmm ... why would someone raise one of those darned Longhorns? What about those horny shorthorns? Lets not forget those dairy animals. Don't those Brama whatevers have horns as well?

Original is one reason I suppose - another is some folks plumb do not mind horns. Others actually like them.

They are handy if you have to grab hold of an animal.

Horn paste:

Take your jacknife and cut off the tip of the horn. As soon as you can find the nub. Rub some paste on the horn. Take some duct tape (Red Green anyone?) and cover the horn. This keeps it off of the cows bag and out of her stomach for a few days.

In my opinion - it works but not as good as cutting them off. Or heck, if you are planning on keeping the animal - put some weights on the tips and curl them down.

Txag has the "black is the only colour" syndrome going today. What if they are crossed with a RED angus?

You have not provided enough information. Txag is on the mark if crossed with blacks - so anticipate seeing blacks with some type of white face or facial markings.

If crossed with reds - well, they will be red baldies - looking an awful lot like their moms.

Is the cross a polled hereford and an angus? Then bred to a horned bull? If this is the case, then you will likely have few horns if any. Maybe lots if the polled hereford had some horns in his background.

Be advised it is not unusual to have horns sprout from the heads of polled animals - depends on how far back you go in their individual gene pool - but sooner or later - if you dig you will find some horns.

Txag knows the homo / hetero stuff far better than I. But that is because I have no interest in it. If the cross looks like it will be a good one I use it. Horns are the least of my worries.

Have fun - I hope they are all you want them to be. Above all I hope they are healthy - get them vet checked - before you pay for them! Vendor in my area pays the vet for any that do not pass the check. Get all their records. If there are not any records - well, I might be - no I would be - a lot more cautious.

Despite my confusing ramblings there is one thing you must remember - and mark my words on this.

If you are going to raise cattle - you will have to deal with horns. They are not a handicap or a disfigurement. They are natural - and very easily removed if you so choose.

Finally - make us all a solemn vow - I want you to promise on this site:

You will not post a "Help my cow is sick / whatever" unless you have consulted your veterinarian and that veterinarian has actually seen the cow first.

Best of luck on your purchase. 8)

Bez

 

[frenchie]

I am going to a sale this weekend to possibly purchase 30 hd. of angus x hereford cows. They are bred to a horned hereford bull.... first question....why would someone use a horned hereford vs. a polled? Next question, how many of these will look hereford? How many will have horns? Has anyone used "horn paste"? The guy at the tractor supply said you just put a dab on when they are a day or two old and no horns grow, can you tell if it'll have horns that soon? Sorry for all the questions... not much cow experience, and NO hereford experience!

Now your talking about Real herefords , no offense to the polled guys. But I find it a lot easier to find easy keeping horned bulls.

You will have popular red or blk baldies. If red will resemble their moms somewhat.

If you get horns use a debudder its a lot faster than paste.

 

[Bez]

frenchie

As you may know, we keep HH - but I have never used a burner - watched it done a few times. You like it?

I always cut them off at around 2 - 3 inches long. Works well - not too much blood and shock from pain is low. I always Lidocaine the animals when they're full grown.

When you burn them, do you knock the bud off after you get the (what I call) white ring around the horn - or do you just kick them out the chute?

Seems like cutting would be faster if you hafta run a couple hundred through.

Just curious.

Was able to stand on the ice in the water tanks tonight - sledge wouldn't do the job - so used a chainsaw to open up the waterers. That's what happens when you have heater probs. Turns out I had a line come unplugged! I figure it froze for at least 12 hours. Heaters are on now - will take a couple of days to catch up though.

Cows were glad to see me - I tried to drive them away and make them eat snow while I was working - but soon as they heard the chainsaw start cutting through the ice they literally trotted up to get a drink.

Bez

 

[dun]

It takes about a minute to two minutes per bud. You burn it till the copper colored ring shows. Pop the cap off and smooth down the slightly raised part that was under the cap till it's smooth with the copper ring.

dun

 

[Dee]

Bez, I don't think anyone has ever had to tell me

You will not post a "Help my cow is sick / whatever" unless you have consulted your veterinarian and that veterinarian has actually seen the cow first.

to call my vet. When I have an animal that isn't looking well, I am usually pretty quick at calling the vet. Perhaps too quick according to some of my neighbors. But I paid for them and I feel I should provide them with the best life I am capable of. But if I do have a question, I do hope that someone here will offer me their advice with out critisisms and complaining.(I will go hug a tree now... ;-) ). The man taking the cattle to the sale is the same man I bought my first cows from, so I know him, and the animals, and the care they have had. I am like anyone else I, always looking for a great deal, but I will not compromise my cattle and their health for a good deal. The horn question wasn't meant to be a smart ass question. Last year I took in a few of my bred heifers to sell, and the ones with a bit of horn were pulled out of the group and sold for less. There isn't much for horned cattle around here or else I would've asked some one who raised them. Cattle with horns have caused problems for me...had one last spring that got into a scuffle with the round bale feeder, and lost a horn. I will stop my cofusing ramblings now also, and thank you for the horn paste advice.

 

[Bez]

Dee

That round bale feeder story is very common - we have gone to tombstone style feeders for everything here - even the horses. It stops the manes from rubbing and nobody gets hung up.

Bez

 

[Frankie]

Last year I took in a few of my bred heifers to sell, and the ones with a bit of horn were pulled out of the group and sold for less. There isn't much for horned cattle around here or else I would've asked some one who raised them.

Horns are usually discounted here, too. We go to our state cattlemen's heifer replacement sale most years. There's a well known operation here in the state that often sells 50-75 Hereford heifers bred to LBW Angus bulls. They'll separate out the ones not polled or dehorned and sell them separately. They take a good hit on those heifers, from the same operation, looking much the same, except for the horns. People just don't want to mess with them anymore.

The first ad we ever put together to sell our Angus bulls, we used the headline "FREE DEHORNING". Several people got a kick out of that at first, then they thought it was a pretty good deal.

 

[frenchie]

frenchie

As you may know, we keep HH - but I have never used a burner - watched it done a few times. You like it?

I always cut them off at around 2 - 3 inches long. Works well - not too much blood and shock from pain is low. I always Lidocaine the animals when they're full grown.

When you burn them, do you knock the bud off after you get the (what I call) white ring around the horn - or do you just kick them out the chute?

Seems like cutting would be faster if you hafta run a couple hundred through.

Just curious.

Was able to stand on the ice in the water tanks tonight - sledge wouldn't do the job - so used a chainsaw to open up the waterers. That's what happens when you have heater probs. Turns out I had a line come unplugged! I figure it froze for at least 12 hours. Heaters are on now - will take a couple of days to catch up though.

Cows were glad to see me - I tried to drive them away and make them eat snow while I was working - but soon as they heard the chainsaw start cutting through the ice they literally trotted up to get a drink.

Bez

Burner works well .We do same as dun with buds.We don,t have many horns . We use mostly polled bulls over horned cows or horned bulls over polled cows


I dehorn grass cattle that we buy .Just tie a twine around the horn base and put pressure on the horn vein. then cut them off short.Next to no blood.




About your water freezeup.


We are looking at a motion sensor system fills when the cows come in. Empties 1 minute after they leave. 700 bucks

 

[docgraybull]

frenchie

As you may know, we keep HH - but I have never used a burner - watched it done a few times. You like it?

I always cut them off at around 2 - 3 inches long.

Any horned animal here gets "sharply" dehorned. Curious as to why you would routinely run horned cattle and "always cut them off at around 2 - 3 inches long". Do the horned cattle (HH) have such superior beef genetics? If not, why not phase into a polled operation and quit messing with the stressful dehorning? Just curious?

 

[Bez]

Any horned animal here gets "sharply" dehorned. Curious as to why you would routinely run horned cattle and "always cut them off at around 2 - 3 inches long". Do the horned cattle (HH) have such superior beef genetics? If not, why not phase into a polled operation and quit messing with the stressful dehorning? Just curious?

Well, I like the look of those nicely turned down horns. I only cut the horns off of those going to market - the rest get to keep them.

Some would say that HH have "different and perhaps better" genetics - but then we would get into another discussion topic.

I often wonder why the thought that horns are bad.

Every breeder on this place has a set of horns - some are pretty big if I might say. I just deal with them and do not worry about it.

Just something to grab on to when necessary.

Lots of HH on the flat lands and getting to be more in my part of the world.

Bez

 

[Jake]

We don't have a horned cow on the place anymore, they've either been sold or cut off. It drasticly affects their attitudes because they seem to think they have more power then EVERYTHING, not just the other cows...

 

[SF]

I am working to phase out all of my horned cattle. Since I'm breeding miniature herefords, it has been very difficult to get them. Only a handful of breeders that have any they are willing to sell.
I prefer polled cattle for the following reasons:
1. Safer for me when handling them
2. Safer for the cows, as they are not hooking each other at the feed trough
3. Less stress on the animals if you choose to dehorn your horned cattle.
4. In a feedlot environment, you can get more polled cattle in the same amount of manger space
I'm sure there are other reasons too, but a horn in your rib cage hurts even from a gentle cow.
Just another opinion.

 

[frenchie]

I am working to phase out all of my horned cattle. Since I'm breeding miniature herefords, it has been very difficult to get them. Only a handful of breeders that have any they are willing to sell.
I prefer polled cattle for the following reasons:
1. Safer for me when handling them
2. Safer for the cows, as they are not hooking each other at the feed trough
3. Less stress on the animals if you choose to dehorn your horned cattle.
4. In a feedlot environment, you can get more polled cattle in the same amount of manger space
I'm sure there are other reasons too, but a horn in your rib cage hurts even from a gentle cow.
Just another opinion.

Run whatever type of cattle you want...but where I run cattle lets just say ...I don,t ranch in Disney Land. It takes tough cattle to survive here.Furthermore it is a lot easier for me to find easy keeping Horned Herefords, than the polled in this area. That being said I did like that bull calf of Txags, think he was polled.

 

[Bez]

frenchie

Run whatever type of cattle you want...but where I run cattle lets just say ...I don,t ranch in Disney Land. It takes tough cattle to survive here.

Would you care to make your opinion a bit clearer?



Bez