holstien calves

[trappersteve]

I have some holstiens bull calves im raising on a Jersey cow and I have a couple of questions. What age should I band them, they are just over 3 weeks old and when do I start their shots (a 7way)? I plan on weaning them at 10 weeks and getting another set and starting over. Should I band them or leave them as bulls I've heard they do better as bulls but want to know everybody's input.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Give them a 7 way and type A shot at about 2 months, then band, deworm and give another round of the other 2 when you wean a couple weeks later.

 

[NC Liz]

First let me say this.
I wouldn't feed a Holstein calf on milk from a Jersey cow unless you dilute it. Their milk is too high in butter fat and can cause scouring.
As for when to band, band them as soon as the testicles are large enough to find easily and grasp.
I wouldn't give them any shots if they are healthy. They should be receiving all the antibodies and immunity they need from the cows milk.
I would be careful when weaning a Holstein calf at 10 weeks as they are normally slower to take to feed and grass/hay.
liz

 

[denvermartinfarms]

First let me say this.
I wouldn't feed a Holstein calf on milk from a Jersey cow unless you dilute it. Their milk is too high in butter fat and can cause scouring.
As for when to band, band them as soon as the testicles are large enough to find easily and grasp.
I wouldn't give them any shots if they are healthy. They should be receiving all the antibodies and immunity they need from the cows milk.
I would be careful when weaning a Holstein calf at 10 weeks as they are normally slower to take to feed and grass/hay.
liz

Really??? I don't know how many you've raised but I have weaned sevarel thousand Holsteins at 8 to 10 weeks, that's pretty much the normal for anyone, although some wean at 6 weeks I believe that is to early.

The shots he was asking about were for blackleg and you certainly don't wait until something has blackleg to vaccinate for it. Are you saying he shouldn't deworm either?

 

[trappersteve]

Give them a 7 way and type A shot at about 2 months, then band, deworm and give another round of the other 2 when you wean a couple weeks later.

What is a type a shot, I will be giving alpha 7 and worming with cydectin. Is cydectin to strong for that young of calf if not what should I use? Thanks

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Type A is another blackleg.

Cydectin is fine, if your useing injectable give 5cc minimum instead of the 1 per 110lbs. I would also strongly Incourage that you do you injectable or a oral wormer and don't use pour on's.

 

[NC Liz]

No you don't wait until they have blackleg to vaccinate but as calves usually are not susceptible/exposed to blackleg until around 6 months of age, there is no need in vaccinating earlier and placing undo stress on the animal. Same for worming when there is no indication the animal has any infestation.

Sometimes the use of the needle can do more harm then good.

If you are going to retain the calves for replacement the 6 months (weaning ) in the best time for vaccination.
If you are selling them don't bother because the buyer most like has his own health program which starts with vaccination and worming.

Unless you have a health herd problem or you can identify a reason, other then preventative, I see no reason to vaccinate or worm calves under 6 months of age.
To me it's just a waist of money.
liz

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Your apparently not in the cattle feeding business.

 

[Till-Hill]

Your apparently not in the cattle feeding business.

You said that a lot nicer than I would have!

Anyway just 2 talks I have had the last few days. First one sale barn manager telling us last night he had 2 groups of steers go thru. One no shots other 2 rounds and done right. Same kind of cattle. 5-6 weights. NO SHOT GROUP WAS OFF $40/cwt! So yes I'd say for $200-$240 a head I'd give them something!

Other talk guy who buys our baby dairy bulls telling us about them expanding and going to over 1,000 head on milk. They vac calves every 14 days till around 4 months old. With different things of course but they PREVENT problems doing this! So yes to the original question talk with your vet and make a vaccination schedule up to follow!

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Your apparently not in the cattle feeding business.

You said that a lot nicer than I would have!

I try. I've never seen since in being disrespectful or insulting to anyone. But following the advice nc Liz was giving would most likely be catastrophic to the op.

 

[NC Liz]

Till-Hill'
What you are stating about 5-6 weights is perfectly plausible, but what you are describing are 5-6 weights preconditioned calves ( as defined below ) vs. un-preconditioned calves.
I have no problem with anyone preconditioning their animals. As a matter of fact I recommend preconditioning, as long as all below conditions are meet, to maximize profit.
But please note, you are now talking about 5-6 weights, not a new born.

But even if you do all of the below, except the last one, most all buyers will not take your word for it and will do vaccination and worming all over again.
I have seen thousands of feeders go through the ring claiming they were vaccinated and wormed only to have the buyer say "sent them to the vet pen for the works" after buying.
Fact is: Unless the auctioneer waves the Health and Certification Form in the air when he says they are vaccinated and wormed, what he says means nothing to the buyer and the buyer will bid as if it was never said and he will vaccinate and worm them.
liz

All calves must be vaccinated with two rounds of respiratory vaccine, 2nd round must be modified live vaccine (IBR, PI3, BVD, BRSV); vaccinated for Manheimia haemolitca (Pasteurella); vaccinated against 7 way blackleg; treated for external and internal parasites. Any brand product!
All calves must be weaned for 45 days minimum, adjusted to feed bunk and water tank.
All calves must be castrated and dehorned or tipped.
All calves must be tagged with an Athens Stockyard Preconditioned Tag (Furnished at no charge).
Producers must complete and sign a Health and Certification Form.

 

[NC Liz]

Here is a little more info on this subject of blackleg from the Alabama Cooperative Extension

What is blackleg?
Blackleg has been recognized as a livestock disease since before medieval times, and today we often use the term loosely to describe several diseases caused by organisms in the Clostridium class of bacteria. However, there are more than 60 different types of Clostridium bacteria, and not all cause disease.
What we commonly call blackleg is a highly fatal infection caused by Clostridium chauvoei, resulting in a gas gangrene in the muscle of young cattle, usually occurring between 4 months and 2 years of age.
Blackleg seldom affects cattle older than 2 years of age, most likely due to immunity induced by vaccines or natural exposure.
However, sporadic cases do occur in cattle older than 2 years and are often associated with the reuse of needles for multiple injections.
Blackleg can also be a problem in cattle less than 4 months old that do not receive adequate passive immunity through colostrum.

"adequate passive immunity" can also come from medicated milk replacer and medicated calf starter feed.
From that you can draw your own conclusion as to the necessity to vaccinate/worm or not under 4 months.
I vaccinate/worm at weaning ( between 4-7 months ) for calves for replacement or to be sold as certified precondition. I don't vaccinate/worm calves to be sold not certified preconditioned.
liz

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Here is a little more info on this subject of blackleg from the Alabama Cooperative Extension

What is blackleg?
Blackleg has been recognized as a livestock disease since before medieval times, and today we often use the term loosely to describe several diseases caused by organisms in the Clostridium class of bacteria. However, there are more than 60 different types of Clostridium bacteria, and not all cause disease.
What we commonly call blackleg is a highly fatal infection caused by Clostridium chauvoei, resulting in a gas gangrene in the muscle of young cattle, usually occurring between 4 months and 2 years of age.
Blackleg seldom affects cattle older than 2 years of age, most likely due to immunity induced by vaccines or natural exposure.
However, sporadic cases do occur in cattle older than 2 years and are often associated with the reuse of needles for multiple injections.
Blackleg can also be a problem in cattle less than 4 months old that do not receive adequate passive immunity through colostrum.

"adequate passive immunity" can also come from medicated milk replacer and medicated calf starter feed.
From that you can draw your own conclusion as to the necessity to vaccinate/worm or not under 4 months.
I vaccinate/worm at weaning ( between 4-7 months ) for calves for replacement or to be sold as certified precondition. I don't vaccinate/worm calves to be sold not certified preconditioned.
liz

That's all good and well, but one simple blackleg shot is pretty cheap insurance with the current value of theses critters.

 

[Till-Hill]

All shots when related to something you have in your area are pretty cheap compared to when a problem takes over. That's why every 6 months or so on dairy cows we evaluate things with the vet and talk everytime beef cows go thru the chute on the best prevention plan I can afford. But always talk to your local vet.......

 

[bighorn]

I know this post is about Holstien calves but my question has to do with calves at 8-10 weeks.
I have found a person selling beef cross calves that are bottle fed and will be weaned at 8-10 weeks they will have the 1st round of vac. First off is it wise to buy calves weaned at 8-10 weeks or am I looking for trouble.
They will be on grain and hay/grass.
If it is wise should I keep them on grain or anything else? Thanks

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I know this post is about Holstien calves but my question has to do with calves at 8-10 weeks.
I have found a person selling beef cross calves that are bottle fed and will be weaned at 8-10 weeks they will have the 1st round of vac. First off is it wise to buy calves weaned at 8-10 weeks or am I looking for trouble.
They will be on grain and hay/grass.
If it is wise should I keep them on grain or anything else? Thanks

It's fine, I would start them on hay or grass and about 5lbs of grain a day. Nearly all calves that have been bottle fed are weaned at 10 weeks or less, most at 8 weeks. As long as there healthy and not showing any normal signs of sickness you will be fine.

 

[bighorn]

They will be started on hay/grass as well as grain. How long should I keep them on grain, and is there any grain in particular?

 

[denvermartinfarms]

They will be started on hay/grass as well as grain. How long should I keep them on grain, and is there any grain in particular?

Find out what others are feeding in your area, right now what I'm feeding is 14% protein, 4% fat and 10% fiber, it's got a good amount of corn in it, it's about 12 to 13$ a hundred here and it puts weight on.

Keep them on grain until you sell them, I would start at 4 to 5 lbs a day and work it up to around 7lbs a day by the time they get to 500 to 600lbs.

What kind of calves are they and what are your plans as far as how long do you plan to keep them?

 

[bighorn]

They are Angus/holstein cross and they have some Murray Gray cross. We are in the pacific northwest, are looking at putting them out on grass from april to October then taking them to auction.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

They are Angus/holstein cross and they have some Murray Gray cross. We are in the pacific northwest, are looking at putting them out on grass from april to October then taking them to auction.

On those kind of calves you can't get by on grass alone, you will need to keep them on some feed the whole time.