Hereford Bull with Photos - (Dialup Beware)

[jhambley]

I thought I would live dangerously and post some photos of a 2 year old bull
I'll be using this year to cut frame and add better rear quarter to my small cow herd.
He is about a frame 4.

Let me know what you think.

JH

 

[Herefords.US]

Anxiety 4th?

George

 

[jhambley]

Yes, he is straight Anxiety 4th breeding.

JH

 

[Herefords.US]

Yes, he is straight Anxiety 4th breeding.

JH

Being around them for 25+ years, it's still in my blood and I can't get rid of it!

I think Jim Lents has done a good job in improving and setting in the phenotype in the last 10 years.

Great looking bull! I think he's small and slow growing for the mainstream, but I thought Lents' cattle were too small 25 years ago!

George

 

[oakcreekfarms]

do you know his actual height.

 

[jhambley]

No I haven't measured him with a rule. I'm just guessing his frame as compared to my other bull and the cows he is running with.

Here is a photo of him standing next to the cows I'm trying to cut frame on.

JH

 

[Herefords.US]

I remember your cows now!

I'm curious why you thought you needed to reduce frame.

What are your goals for your breeding program?

George

 

[jhambley]

A few of my high percentage Anxiety cows were the result of an outcross with Canadian bulls. They are just now two year olds and are too large (frame 6.5+) for my "grass only" program.

Although the cows are very deep and wide backed, they need better rear ends and I hope this bull will improve that trait.

I agree he isn't a "maintstream" type bull. While visiting and researching successful grass only / forage based operations two ideas kept repeating themselves.

1. You have to be a grass farmer first
2. Regardless of breed, a smaller sized cow performs better

I'm not trying to ignite another debate on cattle size versus efficiency here...I'm just giving the reasons for the choices I've made so far.

JH

 

[Herefords.US]

A few of my high percentage Anxiety cows were the result of an outcross with Canadian bulls. They are just now two year olds and are too large (frame 6.5+) for my "grass only" program.

Although the cows are very deep and wide backed, they need better rear ends and I hope this bull will improve that trait.

I know he isn't a "maintstream" type bull. While visiting and researching successful grass only / forage based operations two ideas kept repeating themselves.

1. You have to be a grass farmer first
2. Regardless of breed, a smaller sized cow performs better

I'm not trying to ignite another debate on cattle size versus efficiency here...I'm just giving the reasons for the choices I've made so far.

JH

I'd like to see more Hereford bulls with hindquarters like that.

I figured you were looking at a grass based operation. I wouldn't have guessed those cows being 6.5 -figured they were smaller.

I'm not convinced that "smaller" cows (as in frame 4) perform better, as in produce more pounds of calf per acre.

George

 

[KNERSIE]

I can see that this bull may very well play a big role in setting the type for this herd. We should see the bigger picture, if the long term goals is to have a herd of around a frame 4.5-5.5 that will perform on grass, or a low input system, this combination should do very well.

The wide tops, capacity and growth from the dams side should combine very well with the strong bone, thick hard muscling and smaller frame of the Lents bull. The middle ground between these two very different types should fit into a grass based program nicely.

The challenge will lie in the next generation matings to try and fix the the ideal type for this operation.

 

[KNERSIE]

I'm not convinced that "smaller" cows (as in frame 4) perform better, as in produce more pounds of calf per acre.

George, I think the acceptable range of easy doing efficient cattle is bigger than we think. I would agree that smaller than a frame 4 is unlikely to compete with growth rates, taller than a 6.5 is unlikely to have the easy doing ability for a grass based operation.

Only experimentation in each different environment will tell you the optimum size or sizes or phenotype for your farm.

 

[Herefords.US]

I'm not convinced that "smaller" cows (as in frame 4) perform better, as in produce more pounds of calf per acre.

George, I think the acceptable range of easy doing efficient cattle is bigger than we think. I would agree that smaller than a frame 4 is unlikely to compete with growth rates, taller than a 6.5 is unlikely to have the easy doing ability for a grass based operation.

Only experimentation in each different environment will tell you the optimum size or sizes or phenotype for your farm.

Hard to argue with you when you make so much sense, knersie.

If I had frame 6.5 cows, I'd be trying to moderate their frame as well. In fact, I DO have some frame 6.5 cows - and I'm trying to moderate their frame size - a little!

George

 

[DOC HARRIS]

jhambley-Congratulations on TWO scores!

One- the fine job you did on taking the pictures!

Two- The OBVIOUSLY excellent planning you have done for the future of your herd. This bull looks so much like Anxiety 4th - he could BE Anxiety 4th -re-incarnated! Any heifer calves he has could be bred back to him to SET those genes in a line-bred program, and then your problem would be to find ANOTHER bull that would not dilute that desired Frame Score of 4.5 - 5.5. ( I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you have at least one in mind right now)!

Good thinking!

DOC HARRIS

 

[jhambley]

George & Doc...Thank you for your comments. I'm surprised no one has been more critical of the bull.

George, I have attached an additional photo showing the strong back end to the Lents' cattle. Years of linebreeding have certainly "locked" in this trait.

JH

 

[tlmcr]

Very nice bull, and also very nice grass.

I am also working on moderating mature cow size. Several of my largest will be culled after weaning this summer.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

I'm guessing you might be surprised at how well the offspring of the bull perform when he's used on some outcross bloodlines.

 

[purecountry]

Great job on selecting the bull and putting together a planned program. Love that "thick, hard muscle" as knersie stated, his head, bone, topline, everything. Damn good bull. We have a red Galloway bull that's built very similar.

 

[KNERSIE]

Great job on selecting the bull and putting together a planned program. Love that "thick, hard muscle" as knersie stated, his head, bone, topline, everything. be nice good bull. We have a red Galloway bull that's built very similar.

Why not post a photo of the galloway? I always liked them.

 

[gberry]

How tall are your fences? I keep looking at that third picture and it seems like I'm looking at a miniature. He is well put together, though. Any idea how much he weighs?

 

[jhambley]

How tall are your fences? I keep looking at that third picture and it seems like I'm looking at a miniature. He is well put together, though. Any idea how much he weighs?

Last year I measured him at a frame 3.9 as a two year old. I've never weighed him.

JH