Hereford association

[farmguy]

On another board where I was banned there is a discussion on that forum about the AHA. I was banned per the administrator because I had the word Hereford as part of my E mail address. Therefore showing a lack of intellect. Hence I cannot enter in that conversation but I do know that individuals on this forum are also active on that forum.
My question first of all is why the discussion on ignoring and not using the AHA? What exactly are the issues? Secondly is this an issue with other breed associations where a minority are unhappy and threaten to ignore the breed association. I do realize there can be legitimate differences in opinions.
This is a sincere question on my part. I would sincerely like to know the issues involved. thank you farmguy.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

On another board where I was banned there is a discussion on that forum about the AHA. I was banned per the administrator because I had the word Hereford as part of my E mail address. Therefore showing a lack of intellect. Hence I cannot enter in that conversation but I do know that individuals on this forum are also active on that forum.
My question first of all is why the discussion on ignoring and not using the AHA? What exactly are the issues? Secondly is this an issue with other breed associations where a minority are unhappy and threaten to ignore the breed association. I do realize there can be legitimate differences in opinions.
This is a sincere question on my part. I would sincerely like to know the issues involved. thank you farmguy.

If it's the site I think it is, your better off..

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

On another board where I was banned there is a discussion on that forum about the AHA. I was banned per the administrator because I had the word Hereford as part of my E mail address. Therefore showing a lack of intellect. Hence I cannot enter in that conversation but I do know that individuals on this forum are also active on that forum.
My question first of all is why the discussion on ignoring and not using the AHA? What exactly are the issues? Secondly is this an issue with other breed associations where a minority are unhappy and threaten to ignore the breed association. I do realize there can be legitimate differences in opinions.
This is a sincere question on my part. I would sincerely like to know the issues involved. thank you farmguy.

I would say this is the norm. There are quite a few folks out there who grouse about how the Angus Association conducts business and feel they have better ideas and a direction for the breed than the elected folks at AAA do.

Sounds like you were unfairly singled out on that other forum if something as minor as including the name of your favorite breed in an email address got you banned.

 

[farmguy]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator. Therefore when pressed why my post was deleted and I banned the administrator gave the excuse to members was my lack of intellect my using Hereford in my E mail address. However many other members have Hereford in their names, go figure.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator. Therefore when pressed why my post was deleted and I banned the administrator gave the excuse to members was my lack of intellect my using Hereford in my E mail address. However many other members have Hereford in their names, go figure.

Makes no sense. Anyway, you've been on here for a long time. Hopefully you'll share some pictures of your cattle and tell us more about your farm. I'm partial to Herefords, Red Angus, and of course Black Angus.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator.

No soup for you...come back,one year :cowboy:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator. Therefore when pressed why my post was deleted and I banned the administrator gave the excuse to members was my lack of intellect my using Hereford in my E mail address. However many other members have Hereford in their names, go figure.

Makes no sense. Anyway, you've been on here for a long time. Hopefully you'll share some pictures of your cattle and tell us more about your farm. I'm partial to Herefords, Red Angus, and of course Black Angus.

My feelings are hurt - you don't like Simmental?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator.

No soup for you...come back,one year :cowboy:

I like Herefords and Brimmers can I get a few crackers.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator. Therefore when pressed why my post was deleted and I banned the administrator gave the excuse to members was my lack of intellect my using Hereford in my E mail address. However many other members have Hereford in their names, go figure.

Makes no sense. Anyway, you've been on here for a long time. Hopefully you'll share some pictures of your cattle and tell us more about your farm. I'm partial to Herefords, Red Angus, and of course Black Angus.

My feelings are hurt - you don't like Simmental?

The old school ones? Yes, very much. Today's black ones? They're fine but are too much like Black Angus. A red Sim is a thing of beauty.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Makes no sense. Anyway, you've been on here for a long time. Hopefully you'll share some pictures of your cattle and tell us more about your farm. I'm partial to Herefords, Red Angus, and of course Black Angus.

My feelings are hurt - you don't like Simmental?

The old school ones? Yes, very much. Today's black ones? They're fine but are too much like Black Angus. A red Sim is a thing of beauty.

Even Most of the red ones ain't old school simm now...

 

[SPH]

Add another to the banned from HT club here. The site admin never told me why or even acknowledged my emails after he banned me after I had been posting on the site for several years. I can only assume it's because I'm not an anti-AHA person like the few left that post regularly on there anymore are. My last post before being banned a couple years ago just happened to be a summary of our state sale and banquet that I mentioned the AHA CEO spoke at and our AHA fieldman who put a ton of time and effort into turning our sale into one of the best ones in the region was honored with being named to our hall of fame. I'm sorry if that ruffled some feathers but both are very involved with the sale and turned what used to be a weak sale with an inconsistent quality offering into a consistent top or 2nd best sale average for all breeds because they started screening all sale offerings in person in advance and only cataloging the best offerings which was about half of what was nominated for the sale.

To be honest I dont miss being a poster on that site. So much negativity, jealousy, name smearing, and spreading of rumors and hearsay goes on there that they basically censored anyone that don't agree with the handful of guys who do nothing but complain about anything they can. There are some guys here that also post on that site that are some good guys that I do enjoy keeping up with and discussing things with but that site does not represent what a vast majority of Hereford breeders think nor is it a place that welcomes all opinions with open minds. I'm guessing the guys that do most of the posting still probably would rather be a keyboard warriors and post their rants to an audience that cant do much instead of picking up the phone to talk to someone at AHA or their fieldman or get in their truck and visit a farm they bad mouth but have never seen their cattle in person let alone talked to the breeder too.

Not sure how you expect an association to pay you a visit or do you a favor when you go out of your way to bad mouth and disassociate with what they do. Get involved in the association if you want your voice to be heard.

 

[elkwc]

I was banned because I posted twice a paper by the Beef Magazine that compared polled and horned Herefords as a result of Canadian University research paper. The results did not agree with the preconceived thoughts of the administrator. Therefore when pressed why my post was deleted and I banned the administrator gave the excuse to members was my lack of intellect my using Hereford in my E mail address. However many other members have Hereford in their names, go figure.

You are posting the same BS here almost word for word that you have before. You know why you were banned and so did those of us who were on the other site. You ask the same innocent sounding question but your only intent is too argue and turn a blind eye to facts by those with actual real world experience. It is sad that you have brought the same old post up again trying to stir the pot. My first question for you is how many cows do you run? Are they commercial Herefords or Hereford crosses?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

op:

 

[farmguy]

Thanks for the comments. I really thought someone would answer my question about the issues.

 

[SPH]

Thanks for the comments. I really thought someone would answer my question about the issues.

I'll take a shot at your questions in your original post from my point of view:

My question first of all is why the discussion on ignoring and not using the AHA? What exactly are the issues?

That could probably be better answered by the people who are unhappy with the AHA or an any breed association and have that viewpoint. Judging by the posts over the years the ones who are unhappy view the association as a "good old boy network" and think they only serve the interests of a few certain people and not the breed as a whole. I think some feel there is some dishonesty or people who don't want to address what they feel are issues that are being ignored. They are entitled to have their opinions just as anyone is.

Secondly is this an issue with other breed associations where a minority are unhappy and threaten to ignore the breed association. I do realize there can be legitimate differences in opinions.

I'm sure it's an issue with any association, you never are going to make 100% of the people satisfied regardless what happens. I'm of the opinion that if you have issues with an association you belong to that ranting about it on a message board instead of talking and working with the association staff or board of directors is not going to make much of an impact if you expect to see any changes or get constructive feedback on your concerns. Kind of hard to get any kind of benefit from belonging to an association or expect any changes if you aren't willing to work with them instead of against them. May as well just not register your cattle and raise them commercial if you don't see any value in the association but they obviously get some benefit and value out of registrations otherwise they would have left the association a long time ago right?

Everyone is entiteld to their own opinions, views, beliefs, etc. We may all not always agree with each other but I don't think you'll ever get anywhere by constantly being obsessed with the negative and being outspokenly against the association you belong to or trash talking other people you've never even met or spoken to if you want to see them do something or make changes. It has to be a 2 way conversation and you have to be willing to get your hands a little dirty and work with people you may not necessarily agree with or share their views if you ever are going to have a chance to have your voice being heard. Get involved with the association and the members of it. I don't think the people running the association are making their meeting agendas up by going out to all the message boards and compiling a list of rants and complaints they find. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to get involved with the association you belong to it's kind of hard to sit there and say your voice isn't being heard right? Just looking at our state association's board there are people on it that are some of the largest breeders in the state as well as smallest too as far as number of head they raise. I don't think they operate in a way that benefits only the largest breeders in the state, everyone has an equal voice at the table and someone's vote doesn't count any more than someone else's just because they raise more.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Well reasoned response.

 

[SPH]

Well reasoned response.

Thanks. It's sad state of civility this world is in these days unfortunately. Seems like everyone is mad at someone or something and choose to go the negative route as their way to deal with it. There is that saying "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" that few seem to find relevant anymore. We see it in our political environment, social media, at work, basically anywhere people just seem angry and find it easier to go the negative route or put us resistance instead of being a civil human being and working through things regardless if your views are in line with theirs or not.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well reasoned response.

Thanks. It's sad state of civility this world is in these days unfortunately. Seems like everyone is mad at someone or something and choose to go the negative route as their way to deal with it. There is that saying "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" that few seem to find relevant anymore. We see it in our political environment, social media, at work, basically anywhere people just seem angry and find it easier to go the negative route or put us resistance instead of being a civil human being and working through things regardless if your views are in line with theirs or not.

It almost like watching Antifa.
Our whole society has decided it's okay to force their ideology on you no matter the political leaning up to and including violence.

 

[bball]

Well reasoned response.

Thanks. It's sad state of civility this world is in these days unfortunately. Seems like everyone is mad at someone or something and choose to go the negative route as their way to deal with it. There is that saying "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" that few seem to find relevant anymore. We see it in our political environment, social media, at work, basically anywhere people just seem angry and find it easier to go the negative route or put us resistance instead of being a civil human being and working through things regardless if your views are in line with theirs or not.

Bravo man! BRAVO! Well said. :clap:

 

[Herefords.US]

I guess I will stir the pot.

I have a number of issues with the AHA.

1. The heavy focus by the AHA on the shows. The Hereford cattle being produced for and winning the shows have little practical use in the commercial cattle industry. They are white muscled toads. Most of them are produced via ET and there is almost no way to tell if their dams can have and raise a calf, or breed back regularly, because the dams have been in a donor pen since they were heifers. There is little interest from this sector in important economic traits for the commercial cattle industry, like longevity, or doability in rangelike conditions, a trait the Hereford breed was once famous for possessing.

2. EPDs are the "cash cow" of the breed associations and are probably the biggest sham ever foisted on the cattle industry. They took a good tool (in-herd production/performance records) and turned it into a farce in the effort to quantify results across an entire breed and even multiple breeds. Even with the so called "genetic enhancement", EPD accuracies on young virgin bulls is about .3 or lower. Before you buy that next young bull based on his EPDs, I urge you to look into things like the EPD's accuracy and the STANDARD DEVIATION at that accuracy for those EPDs you are looking at. It is eye opening once you understand it. But you won't see the breed associations freely putting that information out there. And most breeders won't publish EPD accuracy numbers in those slick catalogs they put out for their upcoming sale.

3. Breed integrity. The primary purpose of a breed association should be to preserve the integrity of the breed by insuring that the registrations and resulting pedigrees produced are accurate. The AHA has failed miserably in that regard. The Hereford Herdbook was supposed to be closed for well over a century, yet the breed has been significantly contaminated with the blood of other breeds since the mid 70s. It was the Simmental that brought the diluter gene disorder into the breed. Now, the quest for goggle eyes, red necks, and "red to the hoof" legs have prompted many breeders to use bulls who display very little Hereford breed character and whose genetic makeup is questionable, IMO. It is probably only a few years until the trademark "white face" will be completely gone from many "registered Herefords". The AHA seems to have no interest in particpating OR even making data available to anyone that is interested in doing DNA research regarding breed identification and purity. Probably because they are all too aware of all the snakes in the genetic woodpile.

I could write a book(or at least a long chapter) about each of these issues that I have. But I will step aside on the soapbox and welcome comments from others now.