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greenwillowhereford II

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All right, I'm going to come out and say it. M326 has and sires some of the swaybacks that have been annoying me. I just went on one of my favorite breeder's websites a minute ago, www.loewenherefords.com, and there a son of his was on the front page, and there he was on the top of the herd bull page. I have great respect for their program. They produced the sire of my current bull and a former bull. That sire is a Hudson 19H son, and is still going strong at about 9 or 10 years old.

I know that M326 brings a lot to the table when it comes to carcass, pigment, and growth, but had I raised him, I probably would have steered him. I butchered a bull with a lot better topline than that.

Sorry, don't mean to offend. And I like KCF's program all in all.
 
I agree and have thought so for some time.

Edit postReport this postReply with quote by LFF on Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:45 pm

Your Red Oak bulls epd's are more in line with my goals ,,, so I would chose him. It seems to me that your goals are more on track with the JWR Boomtown bull ,,,so if I was breeding big showy cattle I'd choose JWR. Personally I don't like M326 looks. He appears to be very sway backed and his prodigy does not seem to retain his carcass traits.LFF
Trail Boss
 
I see what your talking about,but I don't think I would care for him much if he wasn't swaybacked either.
 
I saw M326 out in the pasture this past spring, honestly I didn't see him as sway backed. I also saw that calf on Lowens sight this spring, he didn't look bad either.

I do understand what you are saying, but there are a lot of good bulls out m326.

I guess i don't understand why someone would say that he isn't producing carcass merit, he is way above average on his IMF epd with a 105% ratio on 357 calves. No he isn't producing the 140+ ratio that some thought he might, but he is adding muscle, carcass, and weight to a calf crop.

I haven't posted for awhile as i recently started a new job, but saw this post and thought i would weigh in a little.
 
M326 was to be used as a tool by the gruop that purchased him not to be a bull to end all bull breeding by everyone else. He was to add carcass improvements to already heavily muscled cattle. He has worked well on some of my Governor daughters. The one son I kept to use dosn't have said sway back.
P6130062.jpg


If this pic dosen't work I will be back later just got in from baling its early 4 am

Jeff
 
oakcreekfarms":2oom6kxc said:
I saw M326 out in the pasture this past spring, honestly I didn't see him as sway backed. I also saw that calf on Lowens sight this spring, he didn't look bad either.

I do understand what you are saying, but there are a lot of good bulls out m326.

I guess i don't understand why someone would say that he isn't producing carcass merit, he is way above average on his IMF epd with a 105% ratio on 357 calves. No he isn't producing the 140+ ratio that some thought he might, but he is adding muscle, carcass, and weight to a calf crop.

I haven't posted for awhile as i recently started a new job, but saw this post and thought i would weigh in a little.
Click to expand...

My thoughts on his carcass merit was before many offspring were available. His carcass traits are being passed on, and are acceptable. He still is sway backed and many of his offspring have the same look. Would I use him? Yes, but only on a very select animal as a tool not as a end all bull.
 
I like Hudson 19H much better. His grandson that I have has the following EPDs: CE 1.3, BW 2.0, WW 30, YW 51, MM 14, M&G 29, MCE 2.0, SC .4, Fat -0.02, REA .20, MARB 0.10 (I know some of you are going to say those growth numbers are too low, but his calves don't know it.) Calves so far come easy and reasonable, grow quickly, and express the hindquarter and topline that I had hoped for.
 
Geeeze ttclm that is what everyone is saying, You trying to up youe post count or what? :roll: :roll:


If that is the worst example of swayback he has it is not in the far extreme at all, USE HIM!!
 
hopalong":3uxdz5it said:
Geeeze ttclm that is what everyone is saying, You trying to up youe post count or what? :roll: :roll:


If that is the worst example of swayback he has it is not in the far extreme at all, USE HIM!!
Click to expand...


I agree, you can say that again, I hear you, etc. Man I want to become a guru! ;-)
 
Sorry can't just lurk on this one.

I don't know if I agree or not, I have always looked at the M326 pic and felt he had a sway back, but felt it was not much of a problem or a bad pic, he does have 841 reg. calves as an 02 model. Granted his offspring has done little in the show ring but he brings sooooooo much more to the table. I remember seeing a video of one of his offspring as a yearling, I want to say it was Rib Eye, but don't remember, it was a promo video taken at Kevin Schultz's place, couldn't find it with a search. At any rate I saw no sway back in the young bull, and I recall wondering at that time if the M326 pic was just a bad pic, just as many bull pics are.

M326's new fall EPD's are out and in a nut shell are:

BW 4.4, WW 61, YW 98, MM 17, M&G 47, REA .47, IMF .48
ACC .88 ACC.83 ACC.82 ACC.47 ACC.-- ACC.65 ACC.65

I did a search on AHA website to see if any Polled bulls can top those numbers (without using any percentile figures) between 1999 and 2008...none.

Is there any other Polled bulls out there that can give you such a boost in growth and carcass traits in one shot? Why do I have to go to a bull with a BW of 5.7 to get a higher WW and YW? I think the M326 bull is a great bull and I would love to see other pics of him standing naturally before I pass judgment on his top line.

JMO,
Alan
 
Alan":2zxxuj0g said:
Sorry can't just lurk on this one.

I don't know if I agree or not, I have always looked at the M326 pic and felt he had a sway back, but felt it was not much of a problem or a bad pic, he does have 841 reg. calves as an 02 model. Granted his offspring has done little in the show ring but he brings sooooooo much more to the table. I remember seeing a video of one of his offspring as a yearling, I want to say it was Rib Eye, but don't remember, it was a promo video taken at Kevin Schultz's place, couldn't find it with a search. At any rate I saw no sway back in the young bull, and I recall wondering at that time if the M326 pic was just a bad pic, just as many bull pics are.

M326's new fall EPD's are out and in a nut shell are:

BW 4.4, WW 61, YW 98, MM 17, M&G 47, REA .47, IMF .48
ACC .88 ACC.83 ACC.82 ACC.47 ACC.-- ACC.65 ACC.65

I did a search on AHA website to see if any Polled bulls can top those numbers (without using any percentile figures) between 1999 and 2008...none.

Is there any other Polled bulls out there that can give you such a boost in growth and carcass traits in one shot? Why do I have to go to a bull with a BW of 5.7 to get a higher WW and YW? I think the M326 bull is a great bull and I would love to see other pics of him standing naturally before I pass judgment on his top line.

JMO,
Alan
Click to expand...


Alan I'm thinking I saw that same video. and I'm sure it was of Ribeye. I remember I got it off the Sandhill website and then it took me to youtube. I wish they still had it up because the video showed a much better side of Ribeye than the ABS photo.

I think we all owe it to ourselfs that if we are really going to use a bull extensively in an AI program we need to actually see the bull. Just relying on pictures isn't a good idea and anymore you don't know if the photos have been retouched. I've never seen M326 but I have seen a few of his offspring and I would agree with Alan, he brings a lot to the table.

Alan, I think I've found one guy with a better EPD profile. Granted the accuracies aren't there, but they have been headed in the right direction for the past Spring/Fall reports, PCR 286 MR ADVISOR 502R. He's also not that bad phenotypicaly either. Not to mention he has some good names in his pedigree. THey have 3 pictures of his offspring under View progeny, and they're nothing too special but I think if he was used on the right type of cow he'd produce some good ones.
 
I thought about using M326 for a while, that was until I really looked at his sons. A lot of the ones I looked at had his hollowed out back of varying degrees, and for me, worst than that, was in most cases their lack of bone. For me a bull to be a real bull as to stand on a little more than 4 toothpicks, its like the foundation of a building or a business, without that strong foundation you don't have much stand on, or build on. The link to the bull that Greenwillow posted is a prime example of both, swayed back, no bone, just nothing to build on except epds. And I hate to bring this up, since you all seem to be big fans, but Ribeye is another son who inherited both, maybe not to the same degree as the bull in the link, but both problems are there, plus a couple more. I will not be using either of them, but I'm probably the only breeder in the country who's not using one of them. :)
 

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