Herd Size To Justify A Bull

[Ol' 243]

I have recently acquired 9 heifers all in the 10-12 month old range, I will add to these as they come available and fit into what I'm interested in fooling with. At the 16-18 month old time frame I will breed them all at one time, I have an offer from two friends to use their bulls, (we haven't talked money yet) or I can purchase one. At what point (numbers wise) does it make sense to buy a bull? Both of the offers require me taking my heifers and turning them in with his, instead of bringing his bull to me, so their is some aggravation there of loading, moving, etc. What are your thoughts?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

At 9 I don't think you're there yet on justifying a bull. AI would be a better route. I'm not a fan of borrowing bulls.

 

[WalnutCrest]

You have three options:

* Buy or lease a bull and bring him home and let him do his job.
* Take your girls to someone else and their bull.
* AI your girls on your place or somewhere else (depending on your setup).

The only way to answer your question is to know the finance proposals from your two friends, the cost of the AI, the cost of hauling ... and ... most importantly, your goals for your program.

 

[Kingfisher]

It depends.

 

[Muddy]

Too much work to hauling the entire herd for just a bull. 9 heifers is enough to have a bull so if I were you, either buying a bull or A.I them.

 

[Rafter S]

I agree with TT about not borrowing a bull from a friend. Two days after I brought him home he'd lay down and die, or get on the road and get hit by a semi, or some other equally fun event would happen.

 

[Deepsouth]

You mentioned taking your heifers and turning them in with a friend's for breeding. One thing to think about is how many cows the bull will be tending then. If your friend has a dozen or more head that you will be turning yours in with it may take several months for a single bull to get them all bred. If you want a tighter calving season then get a bull to your place. Either by purchase or rent or go with AI.

 

[Ol' 243]

WC, I think AI is out of the question for me, I check my cows once a day for sure and sometimes twice, but my job has me traveling quite a bit and I don't have time to sit and watch cows for signs of heat. The issue with hauling is not that difficult, pretty easy for me, the hard part is rounding them back up and cutting them from my friends cows once they are bred, they both run pretty big operations. One guy runs a registered angus operation and the other guy runs a registered hereford operation, all of my heifers came from one or the other of them. My thoughts were to take my angus heifers to the hereford guy, and the herefords to the angus man. Registered cattle is not what I'm looking to do.

 

[M-5]

According to your goals as has been stated. You can pick up a decent PB bull right now fro 2500 to 3500 bucks. a Young 16 mth old will service them with no issues and you can sell him after all are bred and recoup most if not all of your investment. . You will then have 9 to 10 mths to decide what you want to do. There are a couple of folks here that always breed heifers to a longhorn or correntine to make sure calving issues are not a problem for heifers. if you willing to take a cut on the first calves you can get one of those bulls for next to nothing and then eat him if you want. the possibilities are endless.

 

[M-5]

for first calf heifers a sync protocol would be fairly easy for 9 head

 

[Ol' 243]

There are a couple of folks here that always breed heifers to a longhorn or correntine to make sure calving issues are not a problem for heifers. if you willing to take a cut on the first calves you can get one of those bulls for next to nothing and then eat him if you want. the possibilities are endless.

Now there's an idea.

 

[bse]

You can sync them for AI, drive by and look at the patches takes about 30 seconds on that many. I wouldn't do the borrow or take over thing, 1 little bug that there not used to and conception goes to pot. To many varibles there. M-5 had good advice on buying one.

 

[Rafter S]

There are a couple of folks here that always breed heifers to a longhorn or correntine to make sure calving issues are not a problem for heifers. if you willing to take a cut on the first calves you can get one of those bulls for next to nothing and then eat him if you want. the possibilities are endless.

Now there's an idea.

And it's a good one (or course I'm one of those people that use a Longhorn on first-calf heifers). That way when selecting a bull for subsequent calves you don't need to worry about low birth weight or calving ease, and can concentrate on other traits. And when expanding your herd in the future I'd suggest you consider buying cows that have already had at least one calf, for the same reason. Maybe one of those friends you bought your heifers from would sell you some.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

There are a couple of folks here that always breed heifers to a longhorn or correntine to make sure calving issues are not a problem for heifers. if you willing to take a cut on the first calves you can get one of those bulls for next to nothing and then eat him if you want. the possibilities are endless.

Now there's an idea.

Personally I'd use a low birth weigh Angus bull long before I'd use a LH or Corriente bull.

 

[Ol' 243]

There are a couple of folks here that always breed heifers to a longhorn or correntine to make sure calving issues are not a problem for heifers. if you willing to take a cut on the first calves you can get one of those bulls for next to nothing and then eat him if you want. the possibilities are endless.

Now there's an idea.

And when expanding your herd in the future I'd suggest you consider buying cows that have already had at least one calf, for the same reason. Maybe one of those friends you bought your heifers from would sell you some.

I tried that, both my friends don't get rid of second time heifers unless there is something wrong with em. They only sold me these heifers cause they were out of sync with their program, I bought from them because they both have really good stuff and I trust em. I'm sort of inclined to look at the LH thing, this is a long term deal for me, I ain't looking to pay the bills with this bunch, mostly looking to build a herd for some retirement income later and to use some grass that I've been letting a neighbor bale for free.

 

[Muddy]

Nothing's wrong with using Longhorn/corriente bull as a heifer bull. Make sure they're solid colored either full black or full red (no white muzzles)....less chance for have a skunktail calf.

 

[Drzr]

I know that there may be "A time or TWO" you may need to borrow something but to me a general rule is:
The best way to keep a friend is seldom borrow or lend!

 

[Bigfoot]

IMHO, any herd is big enough for a bull. AI, is an option of course, but it's hard to beat a live cover on an open heifer. Lotta these guys have good luck with AI. Me, not so much.

I'm in the breed heifers to a longhorn camp. $600 will buy you one, and he ought to be worth that when you sell him. His calves will cost you when you sell them though. Your at the crossroads, that we all started at. You need a maximum number of heifers to make it to their second calf. IMHO, a longhorn gets you there. The first calf is the passport to the cow being in your herd.

 

[Muddy]

I may get flamed on here for what I am about to say, but if you can't find any good longhorn bulls, seek out dexter or highland bulls. They will throws small calves and very unlikely to have a colorful calf.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I have a uncle that just bought his first 10 heifers .. he decided not to buy a bull .. vet a I'd his heifers. . 6 stuck .. 2 months after the first breeding he came back out and bred the other 4 . 2 stuck this time .. all said and done he now has cows that are calving through out the year instead of in jan like he wanted .. I told him from the start to buy a bull . I told him you buy a young Angus bull ,Breed his heifers and sell it. Now he wishes he would have listened .