Herd Bulls

[mnmtranching]

These guys have a few over 100 cows in their pasture, think they can handle it?

2 yr old Charolais.Did his job well as a yearling.

3 yr old Angus has 50+ Spring calves.

 

[Moocow11]

yea i dont liek the first bull but i am sure they will "get her done"

 

[Keren]

100 each or 100 together?

Is it a small or large paddock? Clean or treed? Plenty of feed available? There are many factors that influence a bull's ability to serve a particular number of cows.

They both look like decent commercial bulls. The charry is obviously in working clothes but looks to have adequate length and feet and legs. Maybe he could do with a stronger spine and a bit more depth of barrel.

The angus (from the angle) looks thick throughout and seems to have an adequate butt. The rear is only one aspect of the bull, remember.

 

[novatech]

After 50 cows each I don't think I would be in great flesh either.

And the butt isn,t the only part of the bull, just a major one.

 

[mnmtranching]

Having a filled out butt is OK. These bulls are Wintered on my poorer hay only. If they were fed grain they both would have round fat butts. SO WHAT? There is so much more to a good herd bull than fed to have a filled out butt. :roll:

I may put a yearling bull in with this herd in a month.

 

[mnmtranching]

100 each or 100 together?

Is it a small or large paddock? Clean or treed? Plenty of feed available? There are many factors that influence a bull's ability to serve a particular number of cows.

They both look like decent commercial bulls. The charry is obviously in working clothes but looks to have adequate length and feet and legs. Maybe he could do with a stronger spine and a bit more depth of barrel.

The angus (from the angle) looks thick throughout and seems to have an adequate butt. The rear is only one aspect of the bull, remember.

400 acres, lots of trees. And we Have lots of grass this year. I may put a yearling in later, see how things go. I want these bulls to cover as many cows as possible. These are the most expensive bulls I've ever bought with outstanding EPD's. I've had two calf crops from the Angus and the best gaining calves I've ever had and 1 crop from the Char doing well.

 

[purecountry]

I have to agree with Keren, the Char is really lacking in depth, but he is long and....long. I like the Angus bull, he appears to have good bone, feet and thickness. As for how many they can cover, a bull should be able to cover 50 head, especially in a 90 day season with the conditions you're describing. If these 2 bulls are doing that for you, that's great.

 

[Frankie]

100 each or 100 together?

Is it a small or large paddock? Clean or treed? Plenty of feed available? There are many factors that influence a bull's ability to serve a particular number of cows.

They both look like decent commercial bulls. The charry is obviously in working clothes but looks to have adequate length and feet and legs. Maybe he could do with a stronger spine and a bit more depth of barrel.

The angus (from the angle) looks thick throughout and seems to have an adequate butt. The rear is only one aspect of the bull, remember.

400 acres, lots of trees. And we Have lots of grass this year. I may put a yearling in later, see how things go. I want these bulls to cover as many cows as possible. These are the most expensive bulls I've ever bought with outstanding EPD's. I've had two calf crops from the Angus and the best gaining calves I've ever had and 1 crop from the Char doing well.

I'd think you're pushing the envelope to expect each bull to cover 50 cows in those conditions, especially if you have a defined breeding season. We did use an Angus bull successfuly with almost that many one year. But they were in small (5-7) acre paddocks in an intensive grazing program. He didn't have to work very hard to find a cow in heat.

 

[mnmtranching]

100 each or 100 together?

Is it a small or large paddock? Clean or treed? Plenty of feed available? There are many factors that influence a bull's ability to serve a particular number of cows.

They both look like decent commercial bulls. The charry is obviously in working clothes but looks to have adequate length and feet and legs. Maybe he could do with a stronger spine and a bit more depth of barrel.

The angus (from the angle) looks thick throughout and seems to have an adequate butt. The rear is only one aspect of the bull, remember.

400 acres, lots of trees. And we Have lots of grass this year. I may put a yearling in later, see how things go. I want these bulls to cover as many cows as possible. These are the most expensive bulls I've ever bought with outstanding EPD's. I've had two calf crops from the Angus and the best gaining calves I've ever had and 1 crop from the Char doing well.

I'd think you're pushing the envelope to expect each bull to cover 50 cows in those conditions, especially if you have a defined breeding season. We did use an Angus bull successfuly with almost that many one year. But they were in small (5-7) acre paddocks in an intensive grazing program. He didn't have to work very hard to find a cow in heat.

I forgot an important detail The 400 acres is divided into 3 pastures.

 

[Bez>]

Having a filled out butt is OK. These bulls are Wintered on my poorer hay only. If they were fed grain they both would have round fat butts. SO WHAT? There is so much more to a good herd bull than fed to have a filled out butt. :roll:

I may put a yearling bull in with this herd in a month.

Agree with some of your sentiments - only thing I would have done differently is to be sure they had lots of reserve conditioning - that would ensure they are ready to go. Which in my opinion they are not.

Personally I believe they will be in a far worse shape by the time they are finished - if they finish.

Good luck

Bez>

 

[mnmtranching]

Here's a pic of the char bull March 06 as a year old virgin. he weighed 1440 pounds. he bred 30 cows in 3 months no opens.
I think I overworked him.

A pic of one of his calves I took a couple weeks ago. I got these light brown calves from black cows. The other Char bulls I've had threw more white.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Most of the comments regarding Phenotype traits and characteristics concerning pictures of cattle on these posts are usually 'just that' - comments. In my opinion, it is not necessary to expound to a great extent when merely "commenting" on a picture, nor should that type of detail be expected by the presenter.

On the other hand, if someone ASKS for a thorough and exacting summation of an individual animal, or animals, - then the comments should be precise and complete with justifications for the opinions and reasons of the individual commenting. Any competent cattleman would prefer seeing a well filled-out herd, cows AND bulls, but logic and reasoning dictate that two bulls breeding 100 cows should be in optimum condition at the beginning of the breeding season, and be sustained by adequate forage and mineral supplementation throughout the entire period of time they are with the cows. I have no reason to believe that these two bulls were not in as good a breeding condition as they should have been, at least from the picture of the Charolais, and I have to assume that the Angus was in comparative shape as well.

Both of these bulls are lacking in several Phenotypic traits - IF we are analysing them from an optimal expectation point of view. However, mnmtranching asked ONLY if they could "......handle a few over 100 cows in their pasture". In My Opinion - they possibly could, - but as for what the resulting calves would look like, or how they would perform as a "profit-making" endeavor - - that is subjective, and involves an entirely different approach in order to arrive at an informative answer - addressing subject matter and topics such as Genetics of both bulls and cows, EPD's of both genders, conditioning, and protocols of management.

Better genetics will ALWAYS produce better results.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Beefy]

in other words, "probably". i can only think of one way to find out.

 

[mnmtranching]

Most of the comments regarding Phenotype traits and characteristics concerning pictures of cattle on these posts are usually 'just that' - comments. In my opinion, it is not necessary to expound to a great extent when merely "commenting" on a picture, nor should that type of detail be expected by the presenter.

On the other hand, if someone ASKS for a thorough and exacting summation of an individual animal, or animals, - then the comments should be precise and complete with justifications for the opinions and reasons of the individual commenting. Any competent cattleman would prefer seeing a well filled-out herd, cows AND bulls, but logic and reasoning dictate that two bulls breeding 100 cows should be in optimum condition at the beginning of the breeding season, and be sustained by adequate forage and mineral supplementation throughout the entire period of time they are with the cows. I have no reason to believe that these two bulls were not in as good a breeding condition as they should have been, at least from the picture of the Charolais, and I have to assume that the Angus was in comparative shape as well.

Both of these bulls are lacking in several Phenotypic traits - IF we are analysing them from an optimal expectation point of view. However, mnmtranching asked ONLY if they could "......handle a few over 100 cows in their pasture". In My Opinion - they possibly could, - but as for what the resulting calves would look like, or how they would perform as a "profit-making" endeavor - - that is subjective, and involves an entirely different approach in order to arrive at an informative answer - addressing subject matter and topics such as Genetics of both bulls and cows, EPD's of both genders, conditioning, and protocols of management.

Better genetics will ALWAYS produce better results.

DOC HARRIS

You do make me wonder Doc :roll: But we'll see.

 

[Keren]

To answer the original question, I would say yes, I would expect these bulls to cover the 100 head, especially as you have said the 400 acres is divided in three with plenty of feed.

The charry looks good in the yearling pic, I especially like those soft fleshing wrinkles.

Doc, I understand that the question was only whether the bulls would get the job done, but I commented on phenotype because the first two responses to these bulls were negative, and I believe the positive aspects of these bulls were being overlooked.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I often wonder about the wisdom of getting a bull a bit fat before breeding because he's going to lose weight during breeding season. Maybe he loses weight because he was fat to start with-when you think of it you don't ask pro athletes to show up at training camp with a bit of extra flesh and some of them probably have more than a 100 breeding opportunities in a season. A good hard muscled bull just breeds cows and keeps his condition while the chumbawumba's dissolve-at least up here anyway. I think those bulls will do just fine.

 

[SEC]

While your statement may be true, in the early part of breeding a bull may not eat all that much. This would be true for those bulls that are extremely active as well like to herd the cows.

I don't think a bull needs to be rolling in fat but decent cover is a good idea IMHO.

 

[KNERSIE]

I often wonder about the wisdom of getting a bull a bit fat before breeding because he's going to lose weight during breeding season. Maybe he loses weight because he was fat to start with-when you think of it you don't ask pro athletes to show up at training camp with a bit of extra flesh and some of them probably have more than a 100 breeding opportunities in a season. A good hard muscled bull just breeds cows and keeps his condition while the chumbawumba's dissolve-at least up here anyway. I think those bulls will do just fine.

I think the important part of the equation is the part that I highlited and underlined.

I would prefer a bit more condition on the bulls than the two posted, but they should do alright. Under very extensive veld conditions the ratio used here is 3 bulls per 100 cows, with one being a yearling, regardless of the terrain. Its often better to have a younger bull in there as well, he might not get a lot of breeding opportunity, but will often sneak one in while the two older bulls are still arguing about who must do the job.

I would be very concerned introducing a young bull later into an established group, I would want them to determine the pecking order before the start of the breding season.

 

[mnmtranching]

What I've see when you put a yearling bull in the same pasture with an older bull. The older bull will use up energy keeping the yearling away from cows.

I think these guys can handle the job, they don't waste energy chasing a cow that's not ready like a yearling would. When she's ready, she's bred then their off to check on other cows. These bulls spent the Winter in the same pen and get along well.

If we have a hot dry spell, then I don't know.

 

[farmerD44]

We have an excellent 3 yr. old son of sitz alliance 6595 which i posted pics of last year- he looks even better this year. anyways, he took care of 40+ cows last year and all calved in 55 days. this was on about 200 acres of pasture. He was a little thin by fall but beefed back up over winter and looks great now. I will post updated pics one of these weeks. He looks as good as anything in the AI books now.

Dan.