HELP!

[dun]

Depends on what you classify as spring. WSG won;t really start doing much until may-june

 

[ALACOWMAN]

sale barns can be great for the experianced, but a nightmare for a newbie. thats a area you want to have plenty of help and a vet avalible.

 

[S&S Farms]

[Where could I buy the steers, at a sale barn or from a cattleman? Would I sell them at a sale barn or to a feedlot? I like that idea of buying them in the spring and selling them in the fall because I don’t really want to feed them in the winter.

If it were me I would try to buy preconditioned ones from one or two people one being the best. Less chance of sickness from comingling from several herds. Find someone that will show you the shot records for these animals not just tell you that they are done. You can contact some of the local sale barns and they can help you locate so herds bid enough to fill your order. Salina and Pratt have large groups come through in the spring for stockers.

Are you in the flint hills or further west?

Jeff

 

[HerefordSire]

I have some questions about getting into the cattle business. I bought 300 acres of grass last spring and have been renting it out, but now I’m trying to find a way to make more money with it. Would I be ahead to just keep renting it or buy some cows of my own to put in it? I will have about $50,000 to work with next spring so I could buy a herd of cows. I just don’t want to lose all my money. I’ve heard stories of guys losing all their money going into the cattle business. I had cattle when I was a kid and really like them.

Here’s the big question. If I was to buy cows to put in the pasture, what breed should I go with??? Should I go with commercial cattle that you buy and sell at the sale barn or should I invest in high dollar registered stock? I hear stories of cows selling for $10,000 - $50,000 and some for even more. But what do you think I could make the most money with? I don’t have the time to do this full-time, but could put a lot of time into it.

Sorry for so many questions. I’m just trying to see what would be best for me to do.

Thanks so much!

The main thing to figure out if it were me before I made any decision.....if you have a full time job and pay taxes and you are financing your land, then all the taxes you paid last year should be additional cash flow you may not be counting on. For example, if you pay $20K in interest this year, and you made $40K in gross income this year, whaever federal and state income taxes you paid in this year in the form of withholding, if any, should all come back in the form next year, as a refund such that you should have no tax liability. If you will still have to pay taxes look into section 139 of the IRS code which should allow you to hide your remaining income by purchasing depreciable items below a certain limit. If you still can't get your entire refund, let me know and I will provide some more ammo.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

yeah, simxangus is not a super baldy. It is a simangus. Usually, super baldy is a term that is used to denote some sort of Brahman influence.

 

[3waycross]

Were I You, I would buy 80 500lb preconditioned steers and graze them next summer and sell them next fall, hopefully weighing 800 lbs. You get to learn a little about cattle and should make $20,000 on the deal if you don't lose any. Good luck.

This is probably the best idea of all. HOWEVER. You need to have working facilities and someone with some expertise to help you. At least you would not have to worry abot feeding them in the winter.

Also Iluvabeef had a good idea about puttin a portion in hay. Even if you have to have it custom cut you will learn a little about being a grass farmer which will make a big difference if you start trying to do a cow calf operation down the road.

When it's all said and done that 50 grand would probably do you more good with a good investment group, but where's the fun in that.

Whatever you do take your time and try not to make any real big mistakes for a couple years. You don't need to stick your whole leg in the water to find out how cold it is.

 

[Show Me The Money]

[Where could I buy the steers, at a sale barn or from a cattleman? Would I sell them at a sale barn or to a feedlot? I like that idea of buying them in the spring and selling them in the fall because I don’t really want to feed them in the winter.

If it were me I would try to buy preconditioned ones from one or two people one being the best. Less chance of sickness from comingling from several herds. Find someone that will show you the shot records for these animals not just tell you that they are done. You can contact some of the local sale barns and they can help you locate so herds bid enough to fill your order. Salina and Pratt have large groups come through in the spring for stockers.

Are you in the flint hills or further west?

Jeff

I’m west of the flint hills, about an hour from Salina. Does it matter what breed the steers are?

Were I You, I would buy 80 500lb preconditioned steers and graze them next summer and sell them next fall, hopefully weighing 800 lbs. You get to learn a little about cattle and should make $20,000 on the deal if you don't lose any. Good luck.

This is probably the best idea of all. HOWEVER. You need to have working facilities and someone with some expertise to help you. At least you would not have to worry abot feeding them in the winter.

Also Iluvabeef had a good idea about puttin a portion in hay. Even if you have to have it custom cut you will learn a little about being a grass farmer which will make a big difference if you start trying to do a cow calf operation down the road.

When it's all said and done that 50 grand would probably do you more good with a good investment group, but where's the fun in that.

Whatever you do take your time and try not to make any real big mistakes for a couple years. You don't need to stick your whole leg in the water to find out how cold it is.

Yeah, I think I could make more money in other investments, but cattle must be in my blood. My Grandpa used to run a 1,000 Hereford steers on 1000's of acres a long, long time ago. He sold all of his land back in the 1950's. I can only guess how much that land would be worth today if he still owned it.

 

[IluvABbeef]

yeah, simxangus is not a super baldy. It is a simangus. Usually, super baldy is a term that is used to denote some sort of Brahman influence.

I beg to differ. Simangus are another word for Super Baldies, and Simangus could be just Simangus if they don't look like a baldy and are all black or red. :roll:

http://www.altenburgsuperbaldy.com/superbaldynews.html

 

[IluvABbeef]

Does it matter what breed the steers are?

Nope.

 

[bandit80]

Talk to your local extension agent about stocking rates in your area. You are probably in the 6-8 acre range for pairs, and 5-6 acres for calves. Depending on the terrain, your acres might not be suited for a haying operation. I.e. rocks, steep slopes, etc. You also need to look at the fences. Assuming since someone else has been renting it out, they must be in decent shape. I do think you could make more money running your own cows/calves vs. renting it out, but you obviously take all the risk.

Venturing into the cow/calf business with little to no experience could be a bad idea, and you could lose your $50k pretty fast. I wouldn't start out buying really expensive registered animals if you do go the cow/calf route. Buy some good 3-5 year old cows from a reputable producer. They will have many years of life left in them, and should raise you some good cows. In Kansas, blacks and black baldies sell real well. I would recommend buying some british based cows, and use a continental bull on them. I would shoot for some black white faced cows, (Angus/hereford cross) and put either a Gelbvieh or Simmental bull on them. That will maximize your heterosis and give you marketable calves.

Backgrounding calves can be a profitable venture to, and you don't have to tend to cows in the winter time and deal with calving them out, etc. This might be your best option to get your feet wet, and then you can move to the cow/calf operation if you like.

Whatever you do, don't do too much too fast, or you could lose your tail. I am pretty familiar with your area, send me a PM if you have any questions you would like to ask.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Talk to your local extension agent about stocking rates in your area. You are probably in the 6-8 acre range for pairs, and 5-6 acres for calves. Depending on the terrain, your acres might not be suited for a haying operation. I.e. rocks, steep slopes, etc. You also need to look at the fences. Assuming since someone else has been renting it out, they must be in decent shape. I do think you could make more money running your own cows/calves vs. renting it out, but you obviously take all the risk.

Venturing into the cow/calf business with little to no experience could be a bad idea, and you could lose your $50k pretty fast. I wouldn't start out buying really expensive registered animals if you do go the cow/calf route. Buy some good 3-5 year old cows from a reputable producer. They will have many years of life left in them, and should raise you some good cows. In Kansas, blacks and black baldies sell real well. I would recommend buying some british based cows, and use a continental bull on them. I would shoot for some black white faced cows, (Angus/hereford cross) and put either a Gelbvieh or Simmental bull on them. That will maximize your heterosis and give you marketable calves.

Backgrounding calves can be a profitable venture to, and you don't have to tend to cows in the winter time and deal with calving them out, etc. This might be your best option to get your feet wet, and then you can move to the cow/calf operation if you like.

Whatever you do, don't do too much too fast, or you could lose your tail. I am pretty familiar with your area, send me a PM if you have any questions you would like to ask.

Good post. I had also forgot to mention to start small. Don't start with 45 cows, start with 5, then start building your herd up, (Hint: key word some), with the rest of your land being used for hay production. And like bandit said, make sure they're GOOD cows and not AVERAGE cows.

 

[bandit80]

Does it matter what breed the steers are?

Nope.

I disagree, in that you need to look at geographics. You don't want to purchase a bunch of eared cattle and then try to resell them in Kansas. They won't bring any money here. Look for some blacks or black baldies in Kansas.

Also buying a bunch of calves of various breeds will not lead to a uniform group of calves when you go to resell. Buyers like to buy calves that are uniform. Whatever breed/type of calves you purchase, but a uniform group so you can sell a uniform group.

 

[HerefordSire]

I have some questions about getting into the cattle business. I bought 300 acres of grass last spring and have been renting it out, but now I’m trying to find a way to make more money with it. Would I be ahead to just keep renting it or buy some cows of my own to put in it? I will have about $50,000 to work with next spring so I could buy a herd of cows. I just don’t want to lose all my money. I’ve heard stories of guys losing all their money going into the cattle business. I had cattle when I was a kid and really like them.

Here’s the big question. If I was to buy cows to put in the pasture, what breed should I go with??? Should I go with commercial cattle that you buy and sell at the sale barn or should I invest in high dollar registered stock? I hear stories of cows selling for $10,000 - $50,000 and some for even more. But what do you think I could make the most money with? I don’t have the time to do this full-time, but could put a lot of time into it.

Sorry for so many questions. I’m just trying to see what would be best for me to do.

Thanks so much!

The main thing to figure out if it were me before I made any decision.....if you have a full time job and pay taxes and you are financing your land, then all the taxes you paid last year should be additional cash flow you may not be counting on. For example, if you pay $20K in interest this year, and you made $40K in gross income this year, whaever federal and state income taxes you paid in this year in the form of withholding, if any, should all come back in the form next year, as a refund such that you should have no tax liability. If you will still have to pay taxes look into section 139 of the IRS code which should allow you to hide your remaining income by purchasing depreciable items below a certain limit. If you still can't get your entire refund, let me know and I will provide some more ammo.

I have been thinking about how one could take $50K and make a little having to do with cattle. Instead of using the entire $50K, take $11K and buy 20 straws of RRH MR FELT 3008 for $550. Ask Mr. Reed if he could leave the semen where it is so you don't have to touch it and then leave the ad in tact exactly where it is on the front page of his web site. Mark the semen up $200 per straw to $750 per straw. Estimated gross would be 20 * $200 or $4K. If more semen appears, consider buying all of it with the excess cash and then mark it up higher. In the mean time, stay in the air conditioning and heat what evertime of year it is.

http://www.reedent.com/

 

[Show Me The Money]

Talk to your local extension agent about stocking rates in your area. You are probably in the 6-8 acre range for pairs, and 5-6 acres for calves. Depending on the terrain, your acres might not be suited for a haying operation. I.e. rocks, steep slopes, etc. You also need to look at the fences. Assuming since someone else has been renting it out, they must be in decent shape. I do think you could make more money running your own cows/calves vs. renting it out, but you obviously take all the risk.

Venturing into the cow/calf business with little to no experience could be a bad idea, and you could lose your $50k pretty fast. I wouldn't start out buying really expensive registered animals if you do go the cow/calf route. Buy some good 3-5 year old cows from a reputable producer. They will have many years of life left in them, and should raise you some good cows. In Kansas, blacks and black baldies sell real well. I would recommend buying some british based cows, and use a continental bull on them. I would shoot for some black white faced cows, (Angus/hereford cross) and put either a Gelbvieh or Simmental bull on them. That will maximize your heterosis and give you marketable calves.

Backgrounding calves can be a profitable venture to, and you don't have to tend to cows in the winter time and deal with calving them out, etc. This might be your best option to get your feet wet, and then you can move to the cow/calf operation if you like.

Whatever you do, don't do too much too fast, or you could lose your tail. I am pretty familiar with your area, send me a PM if you have any questions you would like to ask.

Thanks for your advice Bandit80. The pasture has really good fence on most of it and the guy that rented it wanted me to replace part of it. I spent $25,000 on a new 5-wire fence this spring for two and a half sides of the pasture. That’s one of the reasons why I thought about running my own cattle instead of renting it. I got $25 an acre from the guy. Does that sound like a good price or was I too low? The pasture does have some steep slopes, but it does have some flat ground that could be hayed.

I think the steers sound like a good way for me to go as I don’t know how to pull a calf. Can you make more money with cow/calf pairs or with buying 500 pound steers and selling them when their 800 pounds?

 

[Show Me The Money]

I have some questions about getting into the cattle business. I bought 300 acres of grass last spring and have been renting it out, but now I’m trying to find a way to make more money with it. Would I be ahead to just keep renting it or buy some cows of my own to put in it? I will have about $50,000 to work with next spring so I could buy a herd of cows. I just don’t want to lose all my money. I’ve heard stories of guys losing all their money going into the cattle business. I had cattle when I was a kid and really like them.

Here’s the big question. If I was to buy cows to put in the pasture, what breed should I go with??? Should I go with commercial cattle that you buy and sell at the sale barn or should I invest in high dollar registered stock? I hear stories of cows selling for $10,000 - $50,000 and some for even more. But what do you think I could make the most money with? I don’t have the time to do this full-time, but could put a lot of time into it.

Sorry for so many questions. I’m just trying to see what would be best for me to do.

Thanks so much!

The main thing to figure out if it were me before I made any decision.....if you have a full time job and pay taxes and you are financing your land, then all the taxes you paid last year should be additional cash flow you may not be counting on. For example, if you pay $20K in interest this year, and you made $40K in gross income this year, whaever federal and state income taxes you paid in this year in the form of withholding, if any, should all come back in the form next year, as a refund such that you should have no tax liability. If you will still have to pay taxes look into section 139 of the IRS code which should allow you to hide your remaining income by purchasing depreciable items below a certain limit. If you still can't get your entire refund, let me know and I will provide some more ammo.

I have been thinking about how one could take $50K and make a little having to do with cattle. Instead of using the entire $50K, take $11K and buy 20 straws of RRH MR FELT 3008 for $550. Ask Mr. Reed if he could leave the semen where it is so you don't have to touch it and then leave the ad in tact exactly where it is on the front page of his web site. Mark the semen up $200 per straw to $750 per straw. Estimated gross would be 20 * $200 or $4K. If more semen appears, consider buying all of it with the excess cash and then mark it up higher. In the mean time, stay in the air conditioning and heat what evertime of year it is.

http://www.reedent.com/

Is that a really good bull? You think people would buy the semen for $200 more? What is the most people spend on semen?

 

[HerefordSire]

Is that a really good bull? You think people would buy the semen for $200 more? What is the most people spend on semen?



The most? Maybe $1,000 per straw. Normally $20 per straw is a good rate. I guess some would be priceless.

In the following link, the blue color means he is a trait leader in the category.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 6&9=5D5E50

If you wanted to really get aggressive, buy the 20 straws and one or two $10K Hereford cows to flush. Flush them each three times in an attempt to generate 100 or so embryos. Buy you about 50 cheap 5 year old cows that milk like the dickens. Put the embryos in when you are flushing. Keep the 30-40 newly born calves in your pasture. Sell the milkers at weaning. Alternatively, hire another rancher with 50 milkers to carry the embryos of you for market + $250 while you are in front of the air conditioner.

 

[S&S Farms]

I’m west of the flint hills, about an hour from Salina. Does it matter what breed the steers are?

I am thirty minutes south of Salina in McPherson area. Bandit80 had it correct start small if going with cattle. Send me PM if you want sometime. Stay with british base eared cattle dont sell well here.

Jeff

 

[IluvABbeef]

The pasture has really good fence on most of it and the guy that rented it wanted me to replace part of it. I spent $25,000 on a new 5-wire fence this spring for two and a half sides of the pasture. That’s one of the reasons why I thought about running my own cattle instead of renting it. I got $25 an acre from the guy. Does that sound like a good price or was I too low? The pasture does have some steep slopes, but it does have some flat ground that could be hayed.

I think the steers sound like a good way for me to go as I don’t know how to pull a calf. Can you make more money with cow/calf pairs or with buying 500 pound steers and selling them when their 800 pounds?

At the farm where I live, our land is rented out for around $80/acre. I'd say that $25/acre is a bit low, IMO.....

Yes, since you're buying more stockers (for instance if you bought +/- 60-70 head) and selling the same number at a greater weight than if you only have 5 or 10 cows and are selling 5 or 10 weaner calves.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Bandit80 had it correct start small if going with cattle.

I missed it where bandit said start small...I know he said about getting some, but as for the words start small... :?

 

[nap]

There is a great deal to think about here. Having a successful cattle operation requires a total commitment. If this is a pipe dream to make a few bucks with your investment put it in a cd or for the more adventurous the stock market. How about a good working facility? Your cattle are not going to volunteer for vaccinations, dehorning, preg checks, loading etc. Plan on putting about a fifth of your money into a working facility that won't get you killed when dealing with the above. I haven't read the thread carefully but even with good fences plan for disasters. If it can go wrong it probably will. Plan on checking your cattle and spending a little time with them every day. How about shelter? Do you have a way to protect a calf that is cursed with being an orphan or simply can't nurse? Don't get me wrong, I love this life style, but I also spent 31 years making money so I could get into a position that I could afford it. If I were you I would think long and hard before jumping into anything I haven't done my homework on.