help, orphaned twin

[kwilliams]

Hello, I am new to the Forum and to the cattle industry. I will try to get right to the problem. We adopted a calf on Saturday. It was a twin that has something wrong with its front should and is slow to get around, so the mother was leaving it behind and it was starting to go down hill. We were asked if we wanted it, or they were going to have it put down. We took it and it seemed healthy and alert and had been fed by a milk cow that morning, so it had a full belly. They had said it had taken a bottle the first day they picked it up, but it was starving at that point. Needless to say we have not been able to get it to take a bottle since we got it on Saturday. It is now Tuesday and I am starting to get worried. It will not suck! We have been sticking the nipple in and letting the milk drip in it's mouth and it will swallow but we cannot get it to suck. The most milk we got in it was last night and we probably got a little less then a quart in it. I want to take it to the vet to get it's shoulder checked out, but my husband wants to wait to see if it is even going to make it before we spend a bunch of money on it. I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Kari

 

[bigbull338]

Hello, I am new to the Forum and to the cattle industry. I will try to get right to the problem. We adopted a calf on Saturday. It was a twin that has something wrong with its front should and is slow to get around, so the mother was leaving it behind and it was starting to go down hill. We were asked if we wanted it, or they were going to have it put down. We took it and it seemed healthy and alert and had been fed by a milk cow that morning, so it had a full belly. They had said it had taken a bottle the first day they picked it up, but it was starving at that point. Needless to say we have not been able to get it to take a bottle since we got it on Saturday. It is now Tuesday and I am starting to get worried. It will not suck! We have been sticking the nipple in and letting the milk drip in it's mouth and it will swallow but we cannot get it to suck. The most milk we got in it was last night and we probably got a little less then a quart in it. I want to take it to the vet to get it's shoulder checked out, but my husband wants to wait to see if it is even going to make it before we spend a bunch of money on it. I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Kari

you are doing the right thing the way your trying to bottle feed the calf.from what your saying it sounds like the calf just quit sucking.does the calf lick an suck your fingers.put the nipple in the calves mouth an gently hold your hand over the top of his mouth and dpnt let him pull away.then he might suck.id try putting the milk in a buckrt an try getting his head in an see if he will drink it.

 

[Alice]

How old is the calf?

You said that when you got it, the calf was starving, correct?

The calf has got to get some nutrition, and it's gonna take a good bit of time and effort on your part.

The calf needs a good quality milk replacer made of milk and milk byproducts...20% fat and 20% protein. Also, you are gonna have to get a esophogeal tube and use it until the calf is strong enough to eat. When you get the tube, find out how to use it properly. I like the stainless steel tube, but others do not...guess it's just a personal preference.

Anyway, I'd like to say to feed the calf 2 qts. milk replacer every 3 or 4 hours, but that's alot of tubing. So, I'd feed the calf 3 quarts liquid...a mixture of milk replacer that equals a full bottle of milk in 3 quarts water 2x daily.

Also, get some probios and squirt it in his mouth when you feed him.

Watch him close for scours...watery poop. If that's going on, you'll have to give him electrolytes. You can get that at a farm store/feed store. Follow the directions on the back of the package. Some say to discontinue milk at that time, but don't do it. That calf needs nutrition. Just feed the electrolytes about 2 hours after you feed the milk replacer.

You definitely have your work cut out for you. Good luck!

Alice

 

[MrGale]

agree with alice here....
you can try mounting the calf like you would a horse and pin it between your legs, then take your middle two fingers and stick em down the calfs throat and wiggle them....it should start to suck ....then bring the nipple in with the other hand....

if there is no suck reflex to the above, you really have a problem. it may take many times to make it work....persistance is the key. good luck!!

 

[cfpinz]

You may want to check the hole in the end of the nipple to see if it's flowing good enough. Gave a twin to a friend of mine this weekend and it would't suck the first night until I took my knife and opened up the hole a bit. When given a good squeeze, I like to see milk squirt out, not drip. If the calf works on the nipple and doesn't get much milk, it might get discouraged.

As far as the tubing goes, get someone to show you how that knows what they're doing, you can kill a calf pretty quick.

cfpinz

 

[kwilliams]

I am not real sure how I reply to all of your suggestions, but I appreciate you both with the quick replies. For BigBull38, I have tried all of that for hours, at least I know that I am trying the right things.
Alice-the calf is 6 weeks old, and when the previous owners picked him up from one of their ranches, he was starving. I think that he had been nursing, but he could not keep up with the mother, as he is lame. And I don't think that she would come back for him. I think that when they picked him up, they also took the mother and the other twin. They gave him a bottle at that time and they said that he sucked it all down. Since then they have had him in a pen and would bring the mother in to nurse and when they couldn't get her in they let him out, to only find him laying under a tree by himself. They put him back up and when the got the mother back up, she didn't want anything to do with him. They put their milk cow in with him and she let him nurse. But they said they just did not have time to deal with him and these issues, so they wanted us to take him. So when we got him, he seemed healthy and alert except for the lameness in his shoulder. He walks on three legs and can get up and down by himself, but he is not real speedy. We have raised two other bottle babies and I have never had one that would not eventually take to the bottle. I am just wondering if I should tube him, or if maybe I should just give up on the whole milk thing and try to get him to eat. My husband is going to pick up some calf feed today, but he doesn't act like he wants to try to eat when we offered him some horse feed and I don't think that he has ever even tried to drink some water.
I am thinking that we are going to have to give him some electrolytes soon if he doesn't drink something. As far as scours, I don't think that he has even pooped since Saturday and it was pretty hard. I don't think he has anything in him to have to go. But I do know about probios if we ever even come to that. Thank you for all of your advise. I appreciate everything.
Kari

 

[kwilliams]

cfpinz-thank you, we have tried several different nipples. We have tried one that just drips out and we have tried one that the milk really comes out of. If we hold it to the side and just let the milk flow down, he will swallow and that is how we finally got almost a half of a bottle down last night, but it took a long time. He fought it for so long that when he finally laid down is when we just sat there with him and let him slowly swallow it, without trying to drown him. I think if we can't get him to start drinking I am going to take him to the vet and have him show me how to tube him. I worked for a small animal vet for years and have tubed several different animals, but I am new to cattle.
MrGale-thank you, we have tried all of your suggestions also, but he will not suck. My husband keeps saying that he does not know how to suck, but he must if he has ever nursed. His tongue just goes to to the side and he tries to get whatever you put in his mouth, out! He will not suck on your fingers. The lady that gave him to me, swears that he took a bottle when she first picked him up and she came over last night and tried for almost 2 hours to get him to nurse. She said the same thing my husband did, "I have never had one that wouldn't eventually suck". So you think that we should just keep trying and we will, but it is so frustrating!
Thanks again,
Kari

 

[backhoeboogie]

My brindle cow had twin heifers. One almost died. I took it home and put it in a 10 foot dog kennel. This is going to sound cruel but it is fact. I would get straddle of it and pick its head up, pry open its mouth, put the nipple in, and squeeze its jaws together to make milk go into its throat. I held the head up so it had to swallow. It had no choice. I limited the intake to about 1 pint the first time. Then two pints thereafter. On the third day the calf was eagerly going for the bottle with tail a wagging. This turned out to be a decent cow. I have had two calves out of her now and two out of her twin sister as well. This calf we bottle fed was rejected by her mother. It happens with twins.

 

[Alice]

If that calf has had nothing but his mother's teat, then he most likely is not gonna be real hep on the rubber nipple.

Msscamp suggested before that a licorice (anise) flavored calf food will be the most likely thing to get the calf started on feed...and it's the truth, let me tell ya'! Calf manna works real well. You might try wetting a little bit of it with some milk replacer and scoop a little into his mouth. Heck, ya' never know...I figure if that calf wants to live and you want it to live, it's worth a try.

I can't help but think the calf is weak and unable to suck...as well as not liking the rubber nipple. There are tubes (my stainless steel one), and others that make tubing less risky because of the type of bulb on the end. However, if you can get that calf started on calf manna, then do it. Does the calf appear to be in pain?

Why don't you learn how to use the tube and tube him once a day, a full complement of milk, and try feeding the calf manna along with it.

These are just things to try. The probios will also help stimulate the calf's appetite.

I know this is disjointed...it's just stuff that's popping into my head.

Alice

 

[3MR]

Just adding a tibit to what others have said.

I have had good results mixing the calf manna with creep feed. Calf Manna is a bit pricey by itself.

 

[kwilliams]

Alice-I am going to try the calf manna, I just thought that Startena sounded like it would be more appealing to a baby. But I had never heard the smell of licorice before, very interesting, thank you. I have used calf manna in the past on young horses. The calf was not weak when we got him, believe me, he can sure fight with us and that bottle. I he has to be getting weaker by the minute the longer he goes without food. He does not seem to be in pain and he bawls like he is hungry when we go up to try to feed him. He seems like he likes the attention. I will try to get the vet to show me how to tube him if I have to, I just really do not want to go there unless I have to. He could be in pain with his shoulder as he gets tired real easy if he is up for too long, but I believe that he has had this should problem since he was born.
backhoeboogie-thank you, you are all so helpful, just knowing that I have tried everything makes me feel better, but at the same time frustrated. I have done like you said and that is really the only way that we get milk in him. He does swallow, he just won't suck and he acts like he does not want it and we have to force it down him. But we got almost a half of bottle down him last night, and maybe if you are right if we just keep up with him like that he will take to it like yours did. I am going to keep trying with the bottle and try some Calf Manna and if worse comes worse, the tube.
Thanks again,
Kari

 

[Alice]

My brindle cow had twin heifers. One almost died. I took it home and put it in a 10 foot dog kennel. This is going to sound cruel but it is fact. I would get straddle of it and pick its head up, pry open its mouth, put the nipple in, and squeeze its jaws together to make milk go into its throat. I held the head up so it had to swallow. It had no choice. I limited the intake to about 1 pint the first time. Then two pints thereafter. On the third day the calf was eagerly going for the bottle with tail a wagging. This turned out to be a decent cow. I have had two calves out of her now and two out of her twin sister as well. This calf we bottle fed was rejected by her mother. It happens with twins.

BH, I'm a softie...that's obvious to the most casual observer, so when I say this take it as gospel. There is absolutely nothing cruel about prying open a calf's mouth, sticking the bottle in its mouth, and working it's jaws up and down to get it to suck.

Alice

 

[Alice]

kari,

I'm with ya'...I know the frustration...and also the need to try everything before the reality sets in that there's nothing else to try. Besides, in your calf's case, he's got something really good going for him...he has you.

You keep trying...lots of time the extra effort is all it takes to turn something around. And, God forbid, should that extra effort prove futile, you can take comfort in knowing that you gave it your best shot.

Alice

 

[dun]

In addition to the milk replacer, at 6 weeks he shuld be on at least grass hay and preferably on some calf starter grain also. Clena water in front of him at all times.

dun

 

[cfpinz]

I thought you were dealing with a young calf, didn't know he was 6 weeks old. We had one who's mother died about two years back about that age, maybe even a little younger. Never would take a bottle, tubed it a few times and got it started on calf manna. Wife's mother raised it for us as they had a bottle calf at the same time, turned out to be as nice as any heifer we raised that year.

cfpinz

 

[Roadapple]

I would take some sandpaper and rough up the nipple to make it feel more natural as he's already had the real thing and probably does'nt like the feel of smooth rubber. Put some molasses on it and try that.

 

[TNfamilyfarm]

try putting some molasis or honey on the nipple. it wouldnt hurt to give a shot of vit a,d+e. is the calf be its self ? it might be lonely! with the calf limping either it got an infection or has suffered trauma. you can give give aspirin safely for pain/fever.

 

[kwilliams]

OK, I just wanted to give everyone who gave me advice and update on the calf. We tried everything yesterday. We tried smaller nipples, kayro syrup on the nipple, all the different ways to hold the bottle and everything, and he still fights it all. We got him some Startena sweet feed as they did not have any calf manna. Finally last night, he licked at the feed a little and seemed a little interested in it, but I don't think that he has ever even tried to drink any water. This morning I forced about a pint of milk down him with a little bit of electrolytes and he licked at the feed a little. He balls everytime I go up to mess with him, so he is still alert and he is still very strong, because he sure can fight with that bottle. I think that we may be able to get him to start eating feed and maybe he will be ok. If we can get him eating and get him going good, we are going to take him to the vet next week to see if there is anything they can do about his shoulder. But we want to get him going good first. I was thinking that maybe he is just lonely and that maybe I should put one of my heifers in the pen with him to teach him to eat and drink and to keep him company.
Thanks again to everybody with their advice,
Kari

 

[Alice]

OK, I just wanted to give everyone who gave me advice and update on the calf. We tried everything yesterday. We tried smaller nipples, kayro syrup on the nipple, all the different ways to hold the bottle and everything, and he still fights it all. We got him some Startena sweet feed as they did not have any calf manna. Finally last night, he licked at the feed a little and seemed a little interested in it, but I don't think that he has ever even tried to drink any water. This morning I forced about a pint of milk down him with a little bit of electrolytes and he licked at the feed a little. He balls everytime I go up to mess with him, so he is still alert and he is still very strong, because he sure can fight with that bottle. I think that we may be able to get him to start eating feed and maybe he will be ok. If we can get him eating and get him going good, we are going to take him to the vet next week to see if there is anything they can do about his shoulder. But we want to get him going good first. I was thinking that maybe he is just lonely and that maybe I should put one of my heifers in the pen with him to teach him to eat and drink and to keep him company.
Thanks again to everybody with their advice,
Kari

Excellent idea about putting one of your heifer's in with him...monkey see, monkey do. We have a couple of older calves that have made a huge difference in getting the smaller calves to eat and provide them company. BTW, believe it or not, you can get Calf Manna at Tractor Supply. Also, if you think the calf is in pain, you can give him some aspirin...not too much nor too often.

One more thing, my aunt used to sprinkle milk replacer on top of the dry feed when she was trying to get the babies to begin eating it. Worked for her.

Alice

 

[backhoeboogie]

Keep force feeding him. Hold his head and neck vertical so that he has to swallow. I expect in a couple of days he'll be greeting you eagerly.

MssCamp can offer you some advice on the nursing action (vacuum) opening up the canal to put the milk into the right stomach. Startena won't go there. I don't know the technical details that she does. I can just tell you that when he starts sucking that bottle on his own, you are okay. He'll arch his neck and the nutrition will go to the right place.

Watch for scours.

Good luck.