Help me, please.

[Theodore W.]

Please, please, please...

I'm writing a nice little article about cattle (Holstein and such).
Now can somebody help me? I have no idea how I can make it understandable to a "normal American."

I really need help. I mean: What is the best way to describe the Holstein "robe"? (I know ways, I do, but what's the best?) How careful do you have to sayingthat during the Civil War the USDA published something suggesting they were either very bad in geography or not aware in what century they lived?

Theodore

 

[john250]

Please, please, please...

I'm writing a nice little article about cattle (Holstein and such).
Now can somebody help me? I have no idea how I can make it understandable to a "normal American."

I really need help. I mean: What is the best way to describe the Holstein "robe"? (I know ways, I do, but what's the best?) How careful do you have to sayingthat during the Civil War the USDA published something suggesting they were either very bad in geography or not aware in what century they lived?

Theodore

You lost me right after "please".
I don't have any holsteins, but my angus-cross prefer a light windbreaker or a slicker (if it's raining) in place of a "robe".

 

[Theodore W.]

Ouch, that's one of those things you get when trying to describe part of what happened in a five language area during the best part of a thousand years (milking cows, fattening cattle, transporting cattle, breeding cattle, selling cattle, fighting cattle diseases, breeding horses, selling horses, just the important stuff ) :

You start to confuse the use of some words used in more than one languague. "Robe" was meant as the skin with hairs on and all on the living animal with colours and spots and all, just a figure of speach, one not uncommon as figures of speach go when applied to horses somewhere between Denmark and England.

 

[Herefordcross]

WHAT???

 

[dun]

I've alwasy jusy referred to it as the "paint job" but "coat pattern" would probably be more acceptasble by edjucated folks.

dun

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Please, please, please...

I'm writing a nice little article about cattle (Holstein and such).
Now can somebody help me? I have no idea how I can make it understandable to a "normal American."

I really need help. I mean: What is the best way to describe the Holstein "robe"? (I know ways, I do, but what's the best?) How careful do you have to sayingthat during the Civil War the USDA published something suggesting they were either very bad in geography or not aware in what century they lived?

Theodore

No disrespect intended... ;-)

However, your post makes very little sense to the "average" person on this board... are you sure you have the appropriate board for your inquiry???: Real tangential... "robe," "Civil War," USDA, "geography", etc.????

Perhaps if you re-worded your inquiry a little clearer you would get one or more "valid" responses from board participants...

 

[andybob]

Please, please, please...

I'm writing a nice little article about cattle (Holstein and such).
Now can somebody help me? I have no idea how I can make it understandable to a "normal American."

I really need help. I mean: What is the best way to describe the Holstein "robe"? (I know ways, I do, but what's the best?) How careful do you have to sayingthat during the Civil War the USDA published something suggesting they were either very bad in geography or not aware in what century they lived?

Theodore

Theodore,there are plenty of people on the forum ready to help once they know what it is you need to know. Try putting your requests in simple point form; eg What year were Frieslands introduced to the States ? How would you describe their colouration? etc.
Hope this helps you.

 

[Theodore W.]

OK, the factual question I have is: Does anybody know whether the Annual report of the Department of Agriculture 1864 is really the publication with the article by Winthrop W. Chenery about Dutch cattle with Holstein in the title?

Where did the other thousand imports come from? From the Netherlands 7,757 animals were exported, in the United States about 8,800 were imported.

What is the best way to describe the Friesian/Holstein-pattern in a way setting it apart from all other colouration you find in cattle?

Can anybody summarize developments in the Notrth-American Holstein breeding in the period 1940-1970?

Except for that I just need somebody willing to tell me where in a text in progress I am hard to understand. It's all just a bit complicated.
More than a century of cattle registry,
its interactions with a horse registry it shared lots with,
a home land to the breed named in a way that suggests a "Who's on first"-like act,
loads of Americans who think that Holsteins come from Holstein.
loads of people who seem to genuinely believe that the origin for the Dutch/Holstein/Friesian appearance has to be sought in Roman/pre-historic times, while that look was not found on Friesian cows before 1700.

It's depressing... Nobody seems to care about a bull like Vondeling (born 1914) anymore..., It's depressing to think that breed associations do not know the origin of their own breed anymore...

 

[Theodore W.]

I've alwasy jusy referred to it as the "paint job" but "coat pattern" would probably be more acceptasble by edjucated folks.

dun

Thanks Dun

Educated folks? It has to be understood by people in Oklahoma State University-country.

But the problem is that I deal with how the that specific coatpattern came from Jylland by Friesland (and Holland and Wesermarsch) to America, so I cannot use any geographic qualifier to make it clear.

I mean does "black pied" cover that specific coat pattern well enough?

 

[dun]

I mean does "black pied" cover that specific coat pattern well enough?

Pied fits as well as anything else, probably better then spotted

dun

 

[john250]

Where did the other thousand imports come from? From the Netherlands 7,757 animals were exported, in the United States about 8,800 were imported.

You could check the tax laws at the time. Maybe there was an incentive to under report exports or over report imports. It's a 12% difference, not out of line with some USDA reports today. :lol:

 

[d6cattleman]

Educated folks? It has to be understood by people in Oklahoma State University-country.

Are you calling us uneducated?

 

[KMacGinley]

I believe that he/she is. That's very nice. I'm sure that you will get tons of help now. Take Care (in the full Hill Creek sense of the salutation.) :cboy:

 

[Tod Dague]

Take Care (in the full Hill Creek sense of the salutation.) :cboy:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Vicky the vet]

Perhaps he meant that as each area has different ways of expressing things, he wished it to be understood by people in Oklahoma vs say New England. Frankly, you have many variations on how things are said regionally in the US, as we do in Canada as well. It has nothing to do with education.

 

[Alice]

go to http://www.usda.gov and do a search.

Alice

 

[Theodore W.]

Educated folks? It has to be understood by people in Oklahoma State University-country.

Are you calling us uneducated?

If you mean with "us" those people responsible for that OSU- breeds website: Aye. I mean trying to explain a pied coat developped after the introduction of some foreign cattle between 300 and 200 years ago by events from 2,000 years ago... And in a way that could never lead to true breeding pied animals to that. As well as referring to animals who did not exist (in a general, not absolute way). Sounds pretty uneducated to me.

That statement does not refer to Oklahomans in general, though.

 

[jw]

Where did the other thousand imports come from? From the Netherlands 7,757 animals were exported, in the United States about 8,800 were imported.

How long did it take to get from the Netherlands to the US in 1864? Could it be possible that the other 1000 were born on the way over??

 

[Theodore W.]

Where did the other thousand imports come from? From the Netherlands 7,757 animals were exported, in the United States about 8,800 were imported.

How long did it take to get from the Netherlands to the US in 1864? Could it be possible that the other 1000 were born on the way over??

Oh, that's quite well possible. W.W. Chenery himself told here that he once shipped 8 sheep at Rotterdam for Boston, and that in Boston he had 17 sheep arriving:

http://www.handweaving.net/DAItemDetail ... emID=3924#

(I guess the ancestry of this breed he gives is rather made up, however.)

Cattle are no sheep, but the Dutch cattle seems to have been rather "fit for sea transport", so birth at sea is quite well possible. That's one part that can explain the differences, however in Germany there were three core areas where more or less the same breed was bred(lots of Holland and Friesian blood imported there), so some cattle can have been imported from there as well,and there were quite some animals exported who had already founded secondary breeding populations... So there are quite some places of birth possible for the difference.

 

[Theodore W.]

go to http://www.usda.gov and do a search.

Alice

Done that... found some interesting stuff, but nothing like a list of contents of their publications from the Civil war era. They seem quite unwilling to claim responsibility for the naming of the Holstein...

Theodore