Hay

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coachg

coachg

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
4,937
City & State/Province
Pisgah, Alabama
Cut hay early Monday morning . It’s been in the low 90’s mon and tue . Started raking around 12:30 . About 20 acres . Weather is saying possible flash floods tonight so trying our best to get it rolled . Latest first cutting I’ve been a part of since we went back in the cattle business . Looks good for mixed grass hay.
 
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coachg said:
Cut hay early Monday morning . It’s been in the low 90’s mon and tue . Started raking around 12:30 . About 30 acres . Weather is saying possible flash floods tonight so trying our best to get it rolled . Latest first cutting I’ve been a part of since we went back in the cattle business . Looks good for mixed grass hay.
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Is it still considered first cutting after the 4th of July?? 😅

Good luck. Hope you get it up dry. We are finally getting a shower or two here. Been a very dry July.
 
I know that I’m a contrarian on this board, but there are a few really sharp producers on here. I know that in many parts of America, hay is a requirement. But some of you good producers who obsess over hay production and quality need to readjust your thought processes to reducing or eliminating hay making and feeding. I know that producers in north Alabama, like coachg, can eliminate hay feeding with very little adjustment to their program. A very good friend loves to make hay. He loves driving a tractor. He’s very good at making high quality hay. I support his decision, but I encourage him to be aware of the total cost of his hay. Fertilizer, herbicide, equipment costs, operating costs, feeding costs, etc. A little adjustment in his grazing plan and, perhaps, calving date would eliminate his need for hay. A mutual friend, in the same environment, spent $16/hd last year on wintering costs. Nobody on this board, regardless of environment, can’t reduce or maybe even eliminate hay feeding with just a little innovative thinking. At worst, consider buying hay rather than producing it. In the southeast, I doubt there are many hay producers who can’t buy hay cheaper than they produce it, if they consider their true cost. We are grass farmers, we are not cattlemen. A cow or calf is only the package we put our grass in to get paid for it. I welcome your responses.
 
anewcomer said:
I know that I’m a contrarian on this board, but there are a few really sharp producers on here. I know that in many parts of America, hay is a requirement. But some of you good producers who obsess over hay production and quality need to readjust your thought processes to reducing or eliminating hay making and feeding. I know that producers in north Alabama, like coachg, can eliminate hay feeding with very little adjustment to their program. A very good friend loves to make hay. He loves driving a tractor. He’s very good at making high quality hay. I support his decision, but I encourage him to be aware of the total cost of his hay. Fertilizer, herbicide, equipment costs, operating costs, feeding costs, etc. A little adjustment in his grazing plan and, perhaps, calving date would eliminate his need for hay. A mutual friend, in the same environment, spent $16/hd last year on wintering costs. Nobody on this board, regardless of environment, can’t reduce or maybe even eliminate hay feeding with just a little innovative thinking. At worst, consider buying hay rather than producing it. In the southeast, I doubt there are many hay producers who can’t buy hay cheaper than they produce it, if they consider their true cost. We are grass farmers, we are not cattlemen. A cow or calf is only the package we put our grass in to get paid for it. Everytime we put something between the mouth of the cow and a blade of grass, we reduce our chances for profit. I welcome your responses.
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anewcomer said:
I know that I’m a contrarian on this board, but there are a few really sharp producers on here. I know that in many parts of America, hay is a requirement. But some of you good producers who obsess over hay production and quality need to readjust your thought processes to reducing or eliminating hay making and feeding. I know that producers in north Alabama, like coachg, can eliminate hay feeding with very little adjustment to their program. A very good friend loves to make hay. He loves driving a tractor. He’s very good at making high quality hay. I support his decision, but I encourage him to be aware of the total cost of his hay. Fertilizer, herbicide, equipment costs, operating costs, feeding costs, etc. A little adjustment in his grazing plan and, perhaps, calving date would eliminate his need for hay. A mutual friend, in the same environment, spent $16/hd last year on wintering costs. Nobody on this board, regardless of environment, can’t reduce or maybe even eliminate hay feeding with just a little innovative thinking. At worst, consider buying hay rather than producing it. In the southeast, I doubt there are many hay producers who can’t buy hay cheaper than they produce it, if they consider their true cost. We are grass farmers, we are not cattlemen. A cow or calf is only the package we put our grass in to get paid for it. I welcome your responses.
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😂 Now that has to be the funniest thing I have ever heard right there !!!! Could you please explain how to go about doing that since it can be done anywhere ? Or just how that can be done at all ?
 
I agree on the basic principal of cutting costs with not feeding so much hay... BUT.... each farm is different... We are required to make hay on 2 places we lease... no fences, no water on parts of either of these places... and it is part of the rental agreement. We also make hay on several parcels that are in the subdivision... the owners have to mow it twice a season... hay or bush hog... we are not going to bush hog it. Have 2 decent places we make hay, More "mini estates" I guess... 15-25 acres... no fences, no water, do not want animals...
We have gone to more rotational grazing and feed alot less hay than we did because we can leave the cows out to pastures longer. BUT, this past year, with the SNOW CRETE , we had... snow then ice that made it harder than concrete and it lasted for many weeks... Hay Feeding was a REQUIREMENT to keeping cattle...
We figure in the total costs of making hay; fertilizer, fuel, tractor trips across the ground.. you name it... and it is not cheap. That said, right now, hay is worth it's weight in gold in this area with the severity of the drought... we are getting a LITTLE rain, that is keeping the pastures from total burned up condition...but we are going to start feeding the dry cows that will be calving starting mid-late August... not near enough rain to have enough grass for them to eat where we will calve them out... We will be bringing in 2 or 3 tractor trailer loads next month, already contracted... and $100-125 PER ROLL is more than it costs us to make it by far... BUT, with the income from the calves, we have a choice of selling cows for more income that the D#$@ED Gov't will tax more... or buying hay and adding on to the hay barn so we can "keep more of OUR OWN MONEY " instead of paying out in taxes that the stupid idiots in gov't throw away ..... Plus, if we sell cows, then there will be fewer numbers for next year... and if the grass grows, then we will be needing cattle...

I get what you are saying, and no doubt most can make some adjustments... but making hay is not all a "money pit" for some .... and when there is a drought, or such, that hay needs to be trucked in from far away... buying hay might very well not be cheaper for many.
 
anewcomer said:
I know that I’m a contrarian on this board, but there are a few really sharp producers on here. I know that in many parts of America, hay is a requirement. But some of you good producers who obsess over hay production and quality need to readjust your thought processes to reducing or eliminating hay making and feeding. I know that producers in north Alabama, like coachg, can eliminate hay feeding with very little adjustment to their program. A very good friend loves to make hay. He loves driving a tractor. He’s very good at making high quality hay. I support his decision, but I encourage him to be aware of the total cost of his hay. Fertilizer, herbicide, equipment costs, operating costs, feeding costs, etc. A little adjustment in his grazing plan and, perhaps, calving date would eliminate his need for hay. A mutual friend, in the same environment, spent $16/hd last year on wintering costs. Nobody on this board, regardless of environment, can’t reduce or maybe even eliminate hay feeding with just a little innovative thinking. At worst, consider buying hay rather than producing it. In the southeast, I doubt there are many hay producers who can’t buy hay cheaper than they produce it, if they consider their true cost. We are grass farmers, we are not cattlemen. A cow or calf is only the package we put our grass in to get paid for it. I welcome your responses.
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You also might want to put a location on your profile. Your idea may be location dependent, eh?
 
farmerjan said:
We will be bringing in 2 or 3 tractor trailer loads next month, already contracted... and $100-125 PER ROLL is more than it costs us to make it by far... BUT, with the income from the calves, we have a choice of selling cows for more income that the D#$@ED Gov't will tax more... or buying hay and adding on to the hay barn so we can "keep more of OUR OWN MONEY " instead of paying out in taxes that the stupid idiots in gov't throw away ..... Plus, if we sell cows, then there will be fewer numbers for next year... and if the grass grows, then we will be needing cattle...
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The number one most destructive issue we have in the beef cattle business is the focus on avoiding taxes. I’m tired of being run into the ground by fortunate sons:
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, Lord?
But when the taxman come to the door
Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah
 
StrojanHerefords said:
The number one most destructive issue we have in the beef cattle business is the focus on avoiding taxes. I’m tired of being run into the ground by fortunate sons:
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, Lord?
But when the taxman come to the door
Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah
Click to expand...
Don't pay taxes but take government handouts through USDA. Or drought insurance.
 
We pay our fair share of taxes... we also have had to do without alot when the income has been way below barely subsistence level. I am saying that choosing between selling more cows and having to claim that as income, then not having enough animals next year to keep the average level of calves needed to sell on a regular basis for the cash flow operation, makes buying hay this year and NOT putting us in a higher income/pay more taxes bracket, a lot more sensible move.
Why do we get penalized on high income years and then get next to no "help" on years that the prices do not give us a living wage???? Why can farmers not keep back money from the good years, and then have it to average out the tough ones???? Without taxes taking it from the good years when we could have better invested it to PAY OURSELVES on the LEAN YEARS?????
If they quit taxing us so much on good years, then on the really tough years, we would not need the "gov't assistance" that they so "generously dole out"...
We applied for some of the help with fencing... because the extension guy kept pushing that there was money to be spent and he didn't have enough people signed up... we have put out the money ourselves, done 90% of the work, and nothing back yet... NOT impressed with the "HELP" they offer...it will be all out of pocket for the things that we would have spread out over a few more years... BUT... that's okay... we are "rolling in dough" with the high cattle prices right now...
I am NOT in favor of getting gov't assistance .... for most projects.... they can't tell you what to do if they don't finance it in one way or another...

If the gov't spent some of the tax money on actual projects that benefitted people who REALLY NEEDED IT, I might be more in favor... BUT, have seen way too much waste and foolish spending over the years to want to give them more money to throw away.
 
Since none of us can control the weather, hay is insurance.

I like @farmerjan have a neighboring property that I lease to cut hay off of. It has terrible fences and I am not putting the capital in to be able to run cattle on it unless I own it one day.

I think you'll find a lot of producers cut hay on leased land or get it for free, so the landowners don't have to pay to get it mowed.

It does come with a cost and there are a lot of people selling hay for a loss in my area, but you really have no idea what is in someone else's hay. Sure, some of the more reputable sellers that have a good reputation will make good hay and that usually comes at a cost. On the other hand, there is a lot of junk that is called hay for sale.

I personally like to control the process of hay that I feed to my herd.
 
We have been fencing off part of our pasture to cut hay but not this year . With all the rain we are blessed with grass this year . I would never think of going into winter without hay . I do know I’ll not have to feed as much hay this year with all the grass we have stock piled . We cut hay on a leased property without a fence and my son’s old property that isn’t fenced either . We could buy hay instead of raising our own . I’ve never put a sharp pencil to our costs but hay around here sells for a pretty penny .
 
farmerjan said:
I agree on the basic principal of cutting costs with not feeding so much hay... BUT.... each farm is different... We are required to make hay on 2 places we lease... no fences, no water on parts of either of these places... and it is part of the rental agreement. We also make hay on several parcels that are in the subdivision... the owners have to mow it twice a season... hay or bush hog... we are not going to bush hog it. Have 2 decent places we make hay, More "mini estates" I guess... 15-25 acres... no fences, no water, do not want animals...
We have gone to more rotational grazing and feed alot less hay than we did because we can leave the cows out to pastures longer. BUT, this past year, with the SNOW CRETE , we had... snow then ice that made it harder than concrete and it lasted for many weeks... Hay Feeding was a REQUIREMENT to keeping cattle...
We figure in the total costs of making hay; fertilizer, fuel, tractor trips across the ground.. you name it... and it is not cheap. That said, right now, hay is worth it's weight in gold in this area with the severity of the drought... we are getting a LITTLE rain, that is keeping the pastures from total burned up condition...but we are going to start feeding the dry cows that will be calving starting mid-late August... not near enough rain to have enough grass for them to eat where we will calve them out... We will be bringing in 2 or 3 tractor trailer loads next month, already contracted... and $100-125 PER ROLL is more than it costs us to make it by far... BUT, with the income from the calves, we have a choice of selling cows for more income that the D#$@ED Gov't will tax more... or buying hay and adding on to the hay barn so we can "keep more of OUR OWN MONEY " instead of paying out in taxes that the stupid idiots in gov't throw away ..... Plus, if we sell cows, then there will be fewer numbers for next year... and if the grass grows, then we will be needing cattle...

I get what you are saying, and no doubt most can make some adjustments... but making hay is not all a "money pit" for some .... and when there is a drought, or such, that hay needs to be trucked in from far away... buying hay might very well not be cheaper for many.
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Because of climate change and I am not referring to what’s happening only for now. But it’s looking more and more like the climatologist and other scientists are correct in their predictions that this is pretty much something that is going to be the norm and only get worse in the years to come.

Anyone making their living and relying only on farming of any kind had better plan way a head, years a head as to how they are going to deal with drought. And that’s not just the cattle industry. You think a $ 100 to a $ 125 a roll is bad including hauling expenses is bad. You better prepare yourself because I bet my bottom dollar that price will be 30 % higher by the end of this summer. And that’s if you can find hay to get hauled in at all.

I have 116 thousand lb bales of good hay that won’t sale for less than $ 100 a bale and that’s whoever was to buy it came and got it. Any hauling expenses is on the buyer. And I am not the only one in my area that’s set to do the same. And that’s my price today. Full blown drought sets in. The price of my hay will cost more than a $ 100 a bale off the field or I will keep it.

Full blown drought could drop the price of cattle. Might or might not. I won’t be bailing any more round bales unless I have an order for it anyway. From here on out I only have 60 acres that will be sold in small 40 lb squares at $8.50 a bale. And have buyers on wait list. And even though this is my first year to start selling horse hay. Any repeat customers I might have get first shot at what I have to sell.

That during years of plenty and years during drought. If I have any hay to sell it will go to people who have counted on me and me on them to do business. So these hay scouts that show up that has in the past looking for hay to truck into drought stricken areas won’t have any luck with me.

Last week the heat index was 105 to 107 degrees for 4 days straight. No rain period ! My Bermuda grass held in there all & all pretty good. Since I have not sprayed yet due to the high temperatures there is still quit a bit of unwanted grass that I don’t want for horse hay. Some dallas, crab grass, very little fox tail, place or two of Jonson grass, but over all 75 % Bermuda that will clean up good after the next spray. But those unwanted grasses really went into survival mode during that 105 degree heat index. Even the Johnson grass wilted and stopped growing. Almost looked like it was about to try and die.

So my point is cattle prices is the only thing that’s going up. I am surprised the price of hay didn’t start going up the same time cattle prices did. If a person plans on raising cattle this day and time. I think they would be wise to be as self sufficient as possible by being able to have their own hay fields and equipment to rely on. Because the day of counting on buying it for a small set up could be a pretty big risk.

And I am willing to bet the days of buying 4 x 5 1000 lb + bales for $ 45 to $ 75 is coming to an end soon. And if you do find hay of any kind for that price would kill a billy goat.
 
farmerjan said:
We pay our fair share of taxes... we also have had to do without alot when the income has been way below barely subsistence level. I am saying that choosing between selling more cows and having to claim that as income, then not having enough animals next year to keep the average level of calves needed to sell on a regular basis for the cash flow operation, makes buying hay this year and NOT putting us in a higher income/pay more taxes bracket, a lot more sensible move.
Why do we get penalized on high income years and then get next to no "help" on years that the prices do not give us a living wage???? Why can farmers not keep back money from the good years, and then have it to average out the tough ones???? Without taxes taking it from the good years when we could have better invested it to PAY OURSELVES on the LEAN YEARS?????
If they quit taxing us so much on good years, then on the really tough years, we would not need the "gov't assistance" that they so "generously dole out"...
We applied for some of the help with fencing... because the extension guy kept pushing that there was money to be spent and he didn't have enough people signed up... we have put out the money ourselves, done 90% of the work, and nothing back yet... NOT impressed with the "HELP" they offer...it will be all out of pocket for the things that we would have spread out over a few more years... BUT... that's okay... we are "rolling in dough" with the high cattle prices right now...
I am NOT in favor of getting gov't assistance .... for most projects.... they can't tell you what to do if they don't finance it in one way or another...

If the gov't spent some of the tax money on actual projects that benefitted people who REALLY NEEDED IT, I might be more in favor... BUT, have seen way too much waste and foolish spending over the years to want to give them more money to throw away.
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I don't know you and I doubt that Anewcomer knows you. We are only talking in generalities don't take it personally.
 
farmerjan said:
We pay our fair share of taxes... we also have had to do without alot when the income has been way below barely subsistence level. I am saying that choosing between selling more cows and having to claim that as income, then not having enough animals next year to keep the average level of calves needed to sell on a regular basis for the cash flow operation, makes buying hay this year and NOT putting us in a higher income/pay more taxes bracket, a lot more sensible move.
Why do we get penalized on high income years and then get next to no "help" on years that the prices do not give us a living wage???? Why can farmers not keep back money from the good years, and then have it to average out the tough ones???? Without taxes taking it from the good years when we could have better invested it to PAY OURSELVES on the LEAN YEARS?????
If they quit taxing us so much on good years, then on the really tough years, we would not need the "gov't assistance" that they so "generously dole out"...
We applied for some of the help with fencing... because the extension guy kept pushing that there was money to be spent and he didn't have enough people signed up... we have put out the money ourselves, done 90% of the work, and nothing back yet... NOT impressed with the "HELP" they offer...it will be all out of pocket for the things that we would have spread out over a few more years... BUT... that's okay... we are "rolling in dough" with the high cattle prices right now...
I am NOT in favor of getting gov't assistance .... for most projects.... they can't tell you what to do if they don't finance it in one way or another...

If the gov't spent some of the tax money on actual projects that benefitted people who REALLY NEEDED IT, I might be more in favor... BUT, have seen way too much waste and foolish spending over the years to want to give them more money to throw away.
Click to expand...
Do you do your own tax return ... or does a CPA? I have found the CPA pays for themselves.
 
coachg said:
We have been fencing off part of our pasture to cut hay but not this year . With all the rain we are blessed with grass this year . I would never think of going into winter without hay . I do know I’ll not have to feed as much hay this year with all the grass we have stock piled . We cut hay on a leased property without a fence and my son’s old property that isn’t fenced either . We could buy hay instead of raising our own . I’ve never put a sharp pencil to our costs but hay around here sells for a pretty penny .
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Its a wonderful concept to not need hay. Also a good concept of buying instead of producing hay.

My thing, though, is i have a heck of a time buying hay that feeds well. Seems most that sell beat the hay to death with their tedder. Of the 10 or 15 people I have bought hay from, id say less than 20% of them had hay that seemed to fed as good as what I make. So then you have to supplement.

Everything we do has pros and cons, but I like having some control... and will gladly pay for said control.
 
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