Hay cost

[Aaron]

Just finished calculating the cost of the hay I put up last year. Little higher than I expected, but I did a lot of repairs and had a bunch more done for me. Not new repairs, but ones I had been putting off for the last few years.

Costing over a total of 436, 6x5 800lb bales; fertilized, cut, baled, and delivered into my paddocks for bale grazing, the cost per bale was $13.10.

That includes:

- $1,178.04 in diesel (although this is the total fuel bill for the summer, and being that I did a lot more than just haying, its contribution really shouldn't be the full amount, maybe 2/3, but I will leave it that way)

- $946.50 in fertilizer.

- and too much dedicated towards parts and labour (over 1/2 the total cost)

I was hoping I could cut the cost down to $10 / bale. Maybe next year. :cowboy:

 

[J+ Cattle]

Aaron that comes out to $32.75 per ton, I don't think you could buy any good hay for that price. I have seen some discussions on the board in the past about the decision to buy hay versus raising their own, but with 436 bales I think you have better economy of scale than most.

 

[kerley]

800 lbs for a 5x6 roll sounds kind of light to me.
~Tom.

 

[Aaron]

800 lbs for a 5x6 roll sounds kind of light to me.
~Tom.

That's the weight these old 605C Vermeers make them at. I actually might be a tad over 800 lbs as I push the baler to the limit for size. I know they have made quite a few advancements in 38 years (tighter bales for one), I just haven't been able to run this baler into the ground yet. Maybe this year. Although I don't think I would want to take the risk on buying something new. Would really like to get a NH 688 or Vermeer XL for a steal of a price. :cowboy:

 

[novatech]

800 lbs for a 5x6 roll sounds kind of light to me.
~Tom.

That's the weight these old 605C Vermeers make them at. I actually might be a tad over 800 lbs as I push the baler to the limit for size. I know they have made quite a few advancements in 38 years (tighter bales for one), I just haven't been able to run this baler into the ground yet. Maybe this year. Although I don't think I would want to take the risk on buying something new. Would really like to get a NH 688 or Vermeer XL for a steal of a price. :cowboy:

I like the way you think. There is just no way to pay out on new equipment unless you are baling one heck of a lot of hay. I do think you need to figure in some cost on replacement equipment or depreciate what you have calculating that into the cost. Sooner or later it will not be feasable to repair what you have. Also pay yourself a little for your work. Who knows you may get sick someday and have to pay someone else. Even after that you are comming out way ahead of buying hay.

 

[papavillars]

while the weight is not optimal the cost seems in line. I was wondering what others are paying to have their hay cut and net wrapped. I paid $ 18.00 a roll, each weighing 1200 +. This seems high but it is the going rate in North Central Texas.

 

[1982vett]

while the weight is not optimal the cost seems in line. I was wondering what others are paying to have their hay cut and net wrapped. I paid $ 18.00 a roll, each weighing 1200 +. This seems high but it is the going rate in North Central Texas.

That is a good price.

I figure mine a little different... I use the going rate of of $25/bale ($50/acre minimum) as a baling cost instead of actual expenses. (pays me for my time and hopefully repairs and fuel). Fertilizer was 17.18/bale and I allow $5/bale moving and storage (that isn't free either). Put mine this year at $47.18/bale or $94.36/ton. If I were to sell any I'd price it around $65/bale ($135/ton), just like the stuff being hauled in from all over the country. Looking forward to a better year this year but $47.18 is considerably better than 2008's cost of $77.96/bale. :shock:

 

[SRBeef]

Aaron, Food for thought:

The 5 ft wide by 6 ft diameter bales I bought this year weighed 1550-1700 lb. Most were right between 1600 and 1650 lb. I weighed a sample of them myself on my cattle scale so I know these weights are accurate. In my particular situation it is very important to know fairly closely how much each bale I am putting out weighs since I put out just what they need until the next time I am there. 25% hay/75% grazing corn right now except calves are 100% hay for a few more days.

While I usually would agree that it is often not necessary to replace older equipment with new paint just because its old, in this case think about the difference a baler that made 1600 lb bales rather than 800 lb bales of the same size would make:

Instead of making (436) 800 lb bales you would make (218) 1600 lb bales but have the same amount of feed. Your baling would go much faster with fewer stops to unload and maybe much faster netwrap instead of twine. This might be very important ahead of a rain.

You would only have to haul 1/2 the nuimber of bales to your bale grazing area. You would only need to move the rings half as often, etc, etc. Your diesel fuel bill and your TIME would be greatly reduced.

I would suggest you reconsider the economics of your older baler. In this case it may pay quite well to get one that makes 1600 lb 5x6 bales instead of 800 lb 5x6 bales.

Thanks for sharing your data. I believe my hay supplier uses a late model NH baler, not sure of the exact model number.

Jim

 

[fargus]

Aaron,
I didn't see a land cost in your figures. That is our highest cost (I'm like you, we run older equipment until it makes sense to upgrade to new-to-me used equipment) and one that I think gets skipped over too many times. I agree with the others commenting on the weight of your bales. We have an older Gehl 1470 that makes 4x5 bales that weigh 800#.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, Food for thought:

The 5 ft wide by 6 ft diameter bales I bought this year weighed 1550-1700 lb. Most were right between 1600 and 1650 lb. I weighed a sample of them myself on my cattle scale so I know these weights are accurate. In my particular situation it is very important to know fairly closely how much each bale I am putting out weighs since I put out just what they need until the next time I am there. 25% hay/75% grazing corn right now except calves are 100% hay for a few more days.

While I usually would agree that it is often not necessary to replace older equipment with new paint just because its old, in this case think about the difference a baler that made 1600 lb bales rather than 800 lb bales of the same size would make:

Instead of making (436) 800 lb bales you would make (218) 1600 lb bales but have the same amount of feed. Your baling would go much faster with fewer stops to unload and maybe much faster netwrap instead of twine. This might be very important ahead of a rain.

You would only have to haul 1/2 the nuimber of bales to your bale grazing area. You would only need to move the rings half as often, etc, etc. Your diesel fuel bill and your TIME would be greatly reduced.

I would suggest you reconsider the economics of your older baler. In this case it may pay quite well to get one that makes 1600 lb 5x6 bales instead of 800 lb 5x6 bales.

Thanks for sharing your data. I believe my hay supplier uses a late model NH baler, not sure of the exact model number.

Jim

It's a good idea Jim. One I have thought of before. But in our operation it would open up a whole 'nother set of issues, such as needing a larger loader tractor. Our 62 hp Massey's loader would buckle, or snap a cylinder or pin hauling hundreds of 1600 lb bales across bumpy fields and roads. Unless you have a heavy duty front axle, it's not healthy to a tractor's front end to haul heavy bales. Not to mention the need to have decent electronics to run the new gadgets on modern balers. :cowboy:

 

[Aaron]

Aaron,
I didn't see a land cost in your figures. That is our highest cost (I'm like you, we run older equipment until it makes sense to upgrade to new-to-me used equipment) and one that I think gets skipped over too many times. I agree with the others commenting on the weight of your bales. We have an older Gehl 1470 that makes 4x5 bales that weigh 800#.

I thought about that. Not sure how to add it (be it taxes or a percentage of the land value). If by taxes, $1.25 a bale extra would cover it. If by land value, 1% :? of value, it would be $1.55 extra.

In our area land cost is minimal when figuring the cost of hay. Land is cheap and hay is plenty. The biggest factor here is not getting too chummy with the fertilizer company.

As far as bale weight, those are pretty well bang on for the 605C. Dad used to sell hay and it was weighed. Our neighbour runs a 4x4 Badger baler (Vermeer 504C) and his bales weigh out at 400 lbs full size ( I can flip them on their side with one push). For whatever reason, you just can't get the old model Vermeer's to kick out heavy bales. :cowboy:

 

[AudieWyoming]

Aaron,
I didn't see a land cost in your figures. That is our highest cost (I'm like you, we run older equipment until it makes sense to upgrade to new-to-me used equipment) and one that I think gets skipped over too many times. I agree with the others commenting on the weight of your bales. We have an older Gehl 1470 that makes 4x5 bales that weigh 800#.

I thought about that. Not sure how to add it (be it taxes or a percentage of the land value). If by taxes, $1.25 a bale extra would cover it. If by land value, 1% :? of value, it would be $1.55 extra.

Aaron,
Land costs need to be at least the opportunity cost of capital + property taxes. What could you do with that $$$$$ if it wasn't in the land. You probably have other benefits to the land ownership besides the hay that can be subtracted out.

I like the way you are thinking here, keep it up! :compute:

 

[1982vett]

Aaron,
I didn't see a land cost in your figures. That is our highest cost (I'm like you, we run older equipment until it makes sense to upgrade to new-to-me used equipment) and one that I think gets skipped over too many times. I agree with the others commenting on the weight of your bales. We have an older Gehl 1470 that makes 4x5 bales that weigh 800#.

I thought about that. Not sure how to add it (be it taxes or a percentage of the land value). If by taxes, $1.25 a bale extra would cover it. If by land value, 1% :? of value, it would be $1.55 extra.

Aaron,
Land costs need to be at least the opportunity cost of capital + property taxes. What could you do with that $$$$$ if it wasn't in the land. You probably have other benefits to the land ownership besides the hay that can be subtracted out.

I like the way you are thinking here, keep it up! :compute:

Could go round and round here with land cost and lost opportunitiy and such. If you really included all of that in the hay cost you couldn't afford to feed it... Still I agree it should account for something. Maybe what ever an acre of land would rent for in your area... not what some developer could shake out of it by building a bunch of houses or shopping centers but by what it will produce as agricultural land.

 

[cowboy43]

1. What type of hay ?
2. How many acres?
3. How many cuttings did you get ?

 

[Aaron]

I thought about that. Not sure how to add it (be it taxes or a percentage of the land value). If by taxes, $1.25 a bale extra would cover it. If by land value, 1% :? of value, it would be $1.55 extra.

Aaron,
Land costs need to be at least the opportunity cost of capital + property taxes. What could you do with that $$$$$ if it wasn't in the land. You probably have other benefits to the land ownership besides the hay that can be subtracted out.

I like the way you are thinking here, keep it up! :compute:

Could go round and round here with land cost and lost opportunitiy and such. If you really included all of that in the hay cost you couldn't afford to feed it... Still I agree it should account for something. Maybe what ever an acre of land would rent for in your area... not what some developer could shake out of it by building a bunch of houses or shopping centers but by what it will produce as agricultural land.

Honestly, I think it would be better to go by percentage land value rather than opp. cost of cap. Other than hay, this land could go for pasture, which wouldn't not even net a 1/4 of the return that the hay does (if you sold it all). No crops here, so other than hay or pasture, it would be abandoned.

We rent a 160 acre (80 cleared) pasture for about $400 a year. I could rent a 160 further down the road for $300/year and take hay off 1/3 of it.

 

[Aaron]

1. What type of hay ?
2. How many acres?
3. How many cuttings did you get ?

Mix hay. Lots of trefoil in all fields. Red clover in some. Patches of reed canary, timothy, brome, june grass. Lots of weeds. :lol2: Some softwood tree saplings as well.

180 acres, give or take a couple of acres.

1 cutting.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Land rent would be a fair thing to include in your cost.

I read an article on using improved pastures/hay fields for beef. Their point was that it may not pencil out with today's prices. It does not sound like you spend much if any on reseeding.

With the reduced price of N can you justify one 50 lb/acre application in the spring?

 

[Aaron]

Land rent would be a fair thing to include in your cost.

I read an article on using improved pastures/hay fields for beef. Their point was that it may not pencil out with today's prices. It does not sound like you spend much if any on reseeding.

With the reduced price of N can you justify one 50 lb/acre application in the spring?

To update, I'll take the $13.10/bale and add the $1.25 (for taxes) and $1.55 (for 1% land value) and come with a current cost of $15.90 or $39.75/ton.

It is far too costly to be breaking up fields (let alone pastures) for beef cattle. Could have contemplated it at the turn of this century when fats were well over a dollar, but not now. By my philosophy, it is not relevant period. Using the cows as the plows and the seed drills in this part of the country is one of the best cost cutting measures one can make. It's not pretty, but as one favorite writer from NR's part of the world put it in a recent cattle magazine, "you can't go broke by making a profit."

We are one of the few that lets their fields go to seed before they cut the hay. Everyone else is all about protein, protein, protein. Gotta be the first to get the hay off so can ask the neighbours 'Got your hay up yet?'. Meanwhile, with all this high quality hay (some of it silage wrapped), they still have the B-trains of pellets or grain coming in to fill the self feeders and bins. All of this...for BEEF cattle. We didn't run as hard for our dairy herd as some people do for their beef herds around here.

I have never bought just nitrogen, but always in a blend. This past year, I only applied sulphur, which happens to be sold at a 24-0-0-20 blend. In the end, I am getting nitrogen cheaper in the sulphur blend ($445/ton) than straight nitrogen itself (~$700/ton). I don't apply 50 lbs straight, I went by the soil test recommendations (calling for 20 lbs sulfur). I aimed for 25 lbs (June 6 application) and did some at 30 lbs, some 100 lbs (2 acre strip as I was fleeing from some fast moving lightning) and some none at all. With the bale grazing, I will be able to cut out at least 20 acres of fertilizer application and will instead add that to the remaining acres. Some hay I won't take off this year (~11 acres), leaving it instead as standing forage and stockpiling it for December feeding the dry cows, on top of my Oct. and Nov. stockpiled fields. :cowboy:

 

[novatech]

Some hay I won't take off this year (~11 acres), leaving it instead as standing forage and stockpiling it for December feeding the dry cows, on top of my Oct. and Nov. stockpiled fields. :cowboy:

My hat is off to you. I have yet to find a more cost effective way of feeding hay. I have some heifers growing out on stockpiled hay plus 3# of 12% feed ea. and doing great. Around here it holds pretty good nutrition until about the end of January. I will pull the off and let the clover put some N back into the ground. That keeps me from having to fertilize for the first cutting.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I parked the fishing boat and broke up quite a bit of rocky old quack sod over a period of 3 years. The rational was I could make a couple bucks off one year of grain and then seed it down with an oats companion crop. Two of the three years were very dry, and the price of inputs keep increasing, so my budgets were shot to hell every year...

I am not sure what oats are worth in Canada but I am sure you could talk yourself into it is you really liked working up the dirt.

I am focusing on cash flow in 2010 so there is some lime and frost seeding is in the budget. I would really like to renovate a paddock but the kids don't want to pick rocks anymore and I an trying to kick the habit.

I think the boat still works. :idea: