Hay and Grain - Confused!

[tdsteven]

I have one of the books recommended on this site ..Raising Livestock.. and it talks about to much grain causes the ph in the stomach to be high and they won't have the correct protoza to digest forage. But it is obvious that many people are feeding grain and free choice hay.

I know you are not supposed to switch from all grain to hay/forage over night. Help me understand the digestion/feeding proces.

thanks.

 

[dun]

I've never found anything that spells out exactly what proportions of grain to hay is wrong. And throw another turd in the punch bowl, not all grains have the same effect and there are some derivitives of grain that have mostly bypass proteins and don't cause a problem.
My policy is the less grain the better, but, and I'm just guessing, 1% or less of the body weight per day shouldn't cause a problem if divided in two feedings. But that's just an observation from watching calves being finished and their behaviour on that ration.

dun

 

[dun]

This part of an on-going discussion among a group of grazing dairy people:

>>>>> I'm pointing out that grain feeding causes changes
in the rumen and the rumen microflora. That this is clearest in the extreme
case doesn't mean it may not be real in a more moderate case. And one of
the difficulties is determining what is moderate or light or sort of
moderate or more toward the heavy side or on partial feed or fully
supplemented or heavily supplemented ...

====

Like so many things in life it is important to not go to extremes but rather
to take a balanced approach. Scientists have studied this for decades,
particularly at the Land Grant Universities, such as ours here in Wisconsin.
If you give the ruminant, or any animal, a good diet, that is balanced for
the nutrients they need, they will do well and the pappillae if a ruminant
will do very well. Yes, even with your demonized grain ... when used in
moderation. In fact, we do know that not using grain for higher producing
dairy cattle is a guarantee to negatively affect their health.

 

[nrs farm]

Here's how I view the digestion process from a simplist viewpoint. Cows have a stomach that digests by using baceria/protozoa/bugs whichever you prefer. Basically the food and water is thrown into a "tank" with these "bugs". Each type of food grain, hay, silage, etc. has a different bug that digests it. So if you are feeding all hay right now you have a "hay bug" that digests it for the cow. Since you are not feeding grain or silage there are minimal grain or silage bugs. So if tomorrow you decide to feed a bunch of grain there are few grain bugs to digest it. The grain will just sit and "ferment" in the cow's stomach. But if you slowly add grain the grain bugs will digest it and multiply so they become more and more and can therefore digest more grain (seems to take about a week to build up the bugs). If there are both grain and hay bugs in the cow then both can be digested. One by product of the process is gas which can cause problems as well. Not sure if this is what you were asking about, but perhaps it might help others.

I don't know either, like Dun, what ratio of one bug to another is "best" or optimum etc. Seems like my cattle do better on more hay and little grain. although in the winter I feed silage with hay and they seem to do fine on it.

 

[dun]

That pretty well sums it up from what I've been able to find out. The only difference is that there are actaully flora that can digest both so small amounts of grain aren't harmfull. After all, most grasses and hays have some grain, i.e. seeds. Feeding a lot of grain quickly upsets the balance and can casue digestive upset. A nutritionalist from the U of MO told me that it takes about two weeks to be able to switch over from a predominantly grain diet from predominantly hay, and vice versa. The dairy world is whole universe different from beef production, and the applicatioon of high grain diets tend to be more feedlot oriented for beef, where it's a normal part of the diet. Other then the energy portion of the diet for cold weather, I think a high grade of hay or forage, alfalfa, rye grass, etc., is a better method of providing protein. In some way's I almost prefer a tub type of supplement then hand feeding grain. The local mill gave me a couple of tubs to see how they worked. The cows eat some of it, but so far the only tub I put out has lasted over 3 times longer then what is expected. I assume that means that or stockpiled fescue is higher in nutritive value then I would expect. Maybe that's why the girls get so darn fat over the winter, it sure isn;t all of the grain that they don't get.
But it still all boils down to whatever works for an individual producer. High demand cows, either from genetics or because they're feeding a calf may require a grain supplement, or cubes, liquid, tubs, whatever is the most economical in any given situation.
Once again, just an old pharts opinion

dun

 

[Bernard]

Don't know if this is an "advertisement" or not, but there is an article in the January CATTLEMAN that talks about the differences in the "grain" bugs versus the "grass" bugs and how the diet must be gradually changed to avoid getting things out of kilter and causing stomach distress. It also gives a little bit of explanation about what Dun mentioned when talking about the different kinds of grains (proteins) that exist and how their intake affects digestibility. It doesn't really give any more information than what's been provided to you already - but it's in a little different form.