hay and ddgs in silo

[jdetig1]

has anyone tired to put haylage and ddgs or gluten in a silo? i was thinking of doing this come spring or summer time but not sure if it would work. should i use dry or wet distillers grain? how much distillers grain should i put in with the haylage? any thoughts or input would be great, thanks.

 

[TexasBred]

I can't imagine why you would want to.

 

[Amo]

Try www.unl.beef.edu

Thats nebraska's university site. They have done lost of research on storing wet DDG. I really don't know why you want to put it into a silo. Maybe if you mix it with hay it would fall down, but Id think either would cake up pretty easily without putting something with it.

They are making a product called Senenergy. Its bout a 50/50 mix of MDDG & Wet Gulten. Dry matter is high enough that you can drive on it and pack it like silage. Im really considering it for next year. Small producer so hard to contract. Plus they give major discounts that time of year. Of course you have labor and $ tied up in there tell you start feeding.

 

[novaman]

Guy in my area buys a bunch of modified distillers in the summer when he can get it cheapest. Grinds straw bales and mixes it with the modified and packs it in a pile like you would silage. He feeds it through the winter to his beef cows. He says they love the stuff.

 

[jdetig1]

my plan is to mix it with haylage so it doestn cake up in the silo. i thought it would be a good idea to do in the summer when distillers are cheapest and when im doing hay. otherwise i dont have a good place to store it without spoilage. maybe ill have to go like a 75:25 ratio of haylage to distillers so it will go in and come out easy, im not sure just an idea.

 

[bannedagain]

I hope it is a ring drive stave. If not you will have lots of fun getting it out.

 

[jnm303]

I grew up putting grass silage in a silo; the only unloaders were my brother and I with pitchforks and a pick to bust it up when frozen; not a pleasant memory!

 

[iowafarmer]

I don't know about a silo. I know one guy that buys distillers in bulk and puts it in bags in the summer and then uses it in the winter when it is cold and wont spoil as quickly. The key is that it needs to be air tight other wise you have spoilage. He is big enough and saves enough that the spoilage that he does have, isn't a problem or a loss. If you can afford to take the risk, I would think about it, but if it doesn't work you are going to have one big mess in that silo. jmo

 

[TexasBred]

A few years ago there was a feed company over in East Texas that put wet brewers grain in big bladder type bags...delivered it in a dump trailer and just let it side out the back. The buyer would open it and use it as needed. Don't know if anyone up that way does with with DDG or not but this was a pretty neat operation.

 

[Amo]

For bagging WDDG you have to have at least a Modified version (45% Dry Matter) or it will sag too much and split the bags. Mixing hay into the WDDG isn't that hard. You don't need to mix it through a TMR wagon or what ever. I know several that just blended it up with a loader tractor as they shoved it up. TMR would be better but time consuming.

Some people will lay palstic between and up the inside of two rows of bales. Fill it up, and cover the top. One guy will put 1# per sq foot of rock salt on top of WDDG and under the plastic. The salt will suck the moisture out of the top and form a crust. He has done this for 4-5 years with good success.

Unless the paper traders get out of comidities, sounds like corn stalks will be tight all year long, especially September. I went to a futures and options meeting last week. Buying this byproduct in June and July at a discount and storing it sure looks like a good deal to me.

One neighbor gets it, piles it up, and leaves it. For what he gets it bought for he can dig the spoiled stuff off and set it aside. The discounted price more than pays for not using the spoiled WDDG. They have done research on the spoiled stuff and say the feed value is the same. Weather they will eat it or not is the question.

 

[novaman]

One neighbor gets it, piles it up, and leaves it. For what he gets it bought for he can dig the spoiled stuff off and set it aside. The discounted price more than pays for not using the spoiled WDDG. They have done research on the spoiled stuff and say the feed value is the same. Weather they will eat it or not is the question.

I don't see how your neighbor can pile modified distillers and leave it sit. That stuff is very hot and approximately 50% DM. I would be surprised if there isn't mold all over that pile. I get only enough to last about 7-10 days in the summer and by the time I clean that up I am seeing quite a bit of mold. I've never seen spoiled feed have a similar feed value to fresh feed. Further the mold will create major problems if enough is fed, even in a beef animal. Molds produce toxins and an organism can only handle so much toxin in the system before things start going to he77.

 

[TexasBred]

Amo if you're just gonna stir and serve that ddg/hay mix there is no way the cattle will be getting the same feed everyday as the mix won't be that consistent. Why not just limit feed the ddg and free choice the hay?

 

[Amo]

The neighbor puts the moldy stuff to the side. What he is saying is that he is getting it bought cheap enough that he can not use the spoiled stuff and still be money ahead. Say he gets 5 loads to stock pile in the summer for use in the winter. They heap it up as much as possiable. Yes there is mold on the outside. Useable product underneath. Personally I wouldn't do that, but he does. My extension agent is the one who told me that the moldy stuff has the same feed value as fresh. Baxter Black does say nobody is as smart as a bus load of county agents. We all don't jump off the cliff. Just making conversation.

What I was saying is if your going to store some ddg in the summer and feed it in the winter. Not feeding it this way as a ration. You don't need to run it all through a TMR wagon to make a silage pile. Yes running it all through a wagon would make a consistant product. If your mixing 130T of WDDG with hay your spending a lot of time with your wagon. The people that do this play around and figure out apx. how many buckets of hay to WDDG it takes to be able to shove it up and pack it. Its not an exact science. You will take product "X" and then put it in your TMR. Extension agent had a field day with this producer that did it. 3rd year he had done it. Feeds cows, developes his registared bulls on it, heiffers, etc. It really looked pretty good. He said you figure out your ratio, and go with it.

If I go this route, I think Ill pile it between bales and put salt on top with plastic. That way its a consistant product and not much work. I know my web address didn't come up with a direct link, but Im sure that its www.beef.unl.edu. The nebraska corn board has them trying to find all kinds of ways to store it from summer to winter time.

 

[TexasBred]

I woulndn't be all that concerned with the mold that grows on the WDDG...silage does the same way and nobody throw it away. Hay is full of mold. Mix it with the good stuff, dilute it and nobody gets a big dose of the molded stuff.

 

[novaman]

I woulndn't be all that concerned with the mold that grows on the WDDG...silage does the same way and nobody throw it away. Hay is full of mold. Mix it with the good stuff, dilute it and nobody gets a big dose of the molded stuff.

I will respectfully disagree TB. I had major problems last spring with cows not coming out of the gate very well. Many got sick and DA's were happening at a much higher than normal rate. Come to find out I had a mycotoxin problem in my silage. I couldn't even see mold on it but it tested out in the very high category. Had to put a binder in the feed to absorb the toxins and the cows did great after that. I used to put every last bit of silage from the pile into the feed wagon. I now keep a close eye and take off any moldy or slightly spoiled looking silage. Might be tedious but my time is cheaper than a vet bill. I agree that if the mold is diluted out enough it won't be a problem but I think I'm a bit gun shy now. Plus dairy cows are more sensitive to mold since they are usually under more stress than any given beef cow.

 

[TexasBred]

You can disagree all you want...not a problem. But not all molds are toxins. Mycotoxins are microscopic. You won't see it. You probably just had some corn silage very high in aflatoxin. And yes certain binders will bind it up so it passes thru the animal. Did any of it ever show up in your milk or was yoru milk plant testing for it at that time??But if you were having DA's with fresh cows I'd be looking at my transition ration too.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I test my feed for Mycotoxins- so I know when I have to be careful or add a binder(very costly but cheaper than high priced winter feed)
Its fairly cheap to test-
So far I have never gotten back a result that worried me- but it makes me feel more secure.

I always test new waste or byproduct feed ingredient, till I get a good baseline for what to expect.

I stacked ten loads of Modified Wet Distillers this fall- and ran several tests on it over the winter (I was worried that the pile stayed hot) and it came back fine every time and lost VERY little nutrients even in the worst rot. I'll only test it one or two times next year. After that I will just test my TMR, until I see a problem then go looking for the source.

Funny thing about testing is I have sent REALLY Moldy looking samples in along with a diluted mix from the whole pile- and they come back pretty close to the same thing.
Most of the Mycotoxins are there when the grain/forage was originally harvested.

 

[TexasBred]

Good post Jabo...and "all" of the mycotoxins were there when the grain was harvested. Glad to see someone testing the products they're feeding. As you said "small expense"and potential to stave off a disaster. ;-)

 

[novaman]

You can disagree all you want...not a problem. But not all molds are toxins. Mycotoxins are microscopic. You won't see it. You probably just had some corn silage very high in aflatoxin. And yes certain binders will bind it up so it passes thru the animal. Did any of it ever show up in your milk or was yoru milk plant testing for it at that time??But if you were having DA's with fresh cows I'd be looking at my transition ration too.

No I never had a problem with it getting into the milk. And your right the transition ration was an issue but it was because the same silage was in the transition ration so it suppressed the appetite in an animal with an already suppressed appetite. I'm still feeding silage from that same pile but it's getting down so I hope I can get to the new silage before too many come in fresh. And yes you're right that not all molds produce mycotoxins that will affect the cows. I guess I assume any mold I see could be bad and take action to keep it out of the cows as best as possible.

Jabo, how much does the binder you use cost? I believe the one included in my premix is costing around 9 or 10 cents per head per day. I didn't think that was all that expensive, especially with the lower SCC I have seen since including it in the ration.

 

[TexasBred]

What's the name of the binder they're using Nova? Some can be quite expensive. Probalby one of the oldest products out is Novasil. I think they now have Novasil "Plus". Works as well as any I've seen and used at 15 lbs. per ton of TMR. I've never heard of an MTB that lowered SCC tho. If aflatoxin becoming more of a problem up north than it use to be? Certainly has been down this way for the last 8-10 years it seems.