inyati13
Well-known member
I just knew that was going to come up. :lol2:hooknline":2g9yehpr said:
"Guts" and Butt
- Thread starter Chuckie
- Start date
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OP
OP
Hey Doc! Hope you are doing well as we have not spoke in a while. It isn't because I don't love ya though. But now for the good part. Fight'n!
I know you didn't read that his belly is the only indicator I use. It is the 1st visual indicator I use.
I guess I should have put nuts before belly. I have the most difficult time buying a bull because I cannot find one to suit me, and when they do, the price is much much higher than I need to pay for it.
I can agree with you on part of this, but no sense in giving-in all the way.
Doc, I always consider myself to be doing my homework before I go bull hunting.
This will be the first year I will be able to use his numbers as he has spent so much time with commercial cows. This is the first year he has given me registered heifers. The people who have bought the bull calves use them on commercial cows.
Doc, here is the bull's registration # so you can tell me where I need to correct things. # 15544196
Chuckie
I know you didn't read that his belly is the only indicator I use. It is the 1st visual indicator I use.
I guess I should have put nuts before belly. I have the most difficult time buying a bull because I cannot find one to suit me, and when they do, the price is much much higher than I need to pay for it.
I can agree with you on part of this, but no sense in giving-in all the way.
Doc, I always consider myself to be doing my homework before I go bull hunting.
This will be the first year I will be able to use his numbers as he has spent so much time with commercial cows. This is the first year he has given me registered heifers. The people who have bought the bull calves use them on commercial cows.
Doc, here is the bull's registration # so you can tell me where I need to correct things. # 15544196
Chuckie
Inyati, as a general rule of thumb, the straighter hocked the bull is the more weight he'll put on the cow, the same apply for added body length. Your bull is certainly a touch straight in the hocks and more so in the shoulders as can be seen by how he carries his head. All bulls make a jump in the final thrust, not all bulls cause heifers to collapse under their weight, though. Some are just more athletic breeders and it has very little to do with size and weight. (within reason, off course)
OP
OP
Chris H, he is real close to 58".
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Chuckie":12evwqnx said:Hey Doc! Hope you are doing well as we have not spoke in a while. It isn't because I don't love ya though. But now for the good part. Fight'n!
I know you didn't read that his belly is the only indicator I use. It is the 1st visual indicator I use.
I guess I should have put nuts before belly. I have the most difficult time buying a bull because I cannot find one to suit me, and when they do, the price is much much higher than I need to pay for it.
I can agree with you on part of this, but no sense in giving-in all the way.
Doc, I always consider myself to be doing my homework before I go bull hunting.
This will be the first year I will be able to use his numbers as he has spent so much time with commercial cows. This is the first year he has given me registered heifers. The people who have bought the bull calves use them on commercial cows.
Doc, here is the bull's registration # so you can tell me where I need to correct things. # 15544196
Chuckie
Chuckie-
Having perused "Ole Grit's" pedigree and numbers, I will not go into great detail concerning same because to do so would open up a "Pandora's Box" of prediliction opinions and possible prejudicial comments that would settle nothing and create a potential bias that is not justified. . . . . On the other hand, - - - - - I just cannot resist expressing my opinions. So here goes!
My personal opinion of several bulls comprising this bull's pedigree is less than complimentary for various reasons. G A R Retail Product (Ole Grit's Sire) is a terrific sire, and I have no argument with him - per se! However, his sire is GAR Precision 1680, who, in his own right, is one of the exemplary bulls in the Angus breed, and whose progeny appears in literally hundeds of thousands of current Angus cattle. BUT - he is the progenator of the lethal Genetic abnormality "Arthrogryposis multiplex (AM, or "Curly Calf Syndrome"), which ripped through the Angus seedstock breeders' herds four or five years ago, and caused much angst among large and small breeders at the time! It is a simple recessive mode of inheritance, and DNA testing has been successful in subsequently detecting the carriers thereof. And, gratefully, your bull is declared Free of that problem! But caution is advised in making decisions regarding future matings, as is the case with all Genetic Abnormalities under management by breed Associations. Therefore, I have very little complaint with his being part of Grit's ancestry. (Exceptions noted later).
The two primary objections that I have with Grit's pedigree are N Bar Emulation EXT (admittedly one of the premium Supreme bulls in the Angus breed!), and Bon View New Design 1407 (also considered by many excellent Registered breeder's as one of the "Big Ticket" bulls of the breed!) . . . and I don't completely disagree with that premise either! So, why am I so oppossed to those particular sires when they are admired and respected by so many knowledgeable breeders? Admittedly, it is the result of personal bias on my part! As adament as I am against "Single Trait Selection" choices in mating decisions, my opposition to BOTH of these bulls is because of "Single Trait Selection" characteristics! I deplore having to admit it, but it is true. With EXT, it is the abominable Docility trait that he stamped on his progeny that is like a" Firestorm" in many of his downline offspring. As time and continued matings dilute those lousy attitude genes that he spread like a disease through the Angus breed, his negative influence is dulled and minimized exponentially. But, to his credit, his many OTHER optimal characteristics have been a Godsend to many breeders. Therefore, the emphasis of combining BALANCE and "Multiple Trait Selection" choices in ALL mating decisions works to perfection if it is followed judiciously and ruthlessly, with DNA Genomic Enhanced EPD's to support those decisions. The very same principles apply to the Genetic utilization of Bon View New Design 1407 in mating decisions. My contention and conflict with "1407" is the fact that he passes on to his progeny (and through several generations down line from him) a definite lack of musculature affecting the expensive cuts of Retail Meat Products - Rib Eye, Tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Shoulder Roasts, Lower Round Steak, et al. Many of his other EPD's and their Accuracies are optimal and more than acceptable. That is why many breeders jumped on the "1407" bandwagon and enhanced their seedstock inventories. But he absolutely produced what I call "Funnel Butts" in many of his heifers, and the result was pinched butts and Funnel Butts and chopped off hindquarters in too many Angus cattle. I railed against that phenotypic trait for years - and STILL do! And I am happy to see that the tendency is fading away from what it was several years ago. Angus breeders are transitioning back to more moderate sized cattle with more obvious "BEEF" characteristics instead of half-baked black "Dairy type" wimps. So, it looks like we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't!
Chuckie- insofar as to where I think that you can help your genetics over DeerValley Retail Grit S6125, I would suggest that you focus on BALANCING slightly less BW (+1.0 - 2.0), slightly increase WW (up to +/- 55), Yearling Weight is okay, increase Docility expressly (+30 or more), do NOT increase the Milk EPD's because it relates to lower Birth Weight and loss of musculature (again!) And, by the way, Grit's picture does not show his lack of hindquarter genetics because he is so fat, and the lower half of his hindquarter (round) is not red meat, but fat! Ultimate result? "Funnel Butt" and hindquarter thickness not carried through, particularly with his daughters. His $EN EPD (-2.89) should be a positive number. This EPD indicates that his females are hard keepers and are costing you money. His Carcass EPD's are about average and not bad because they are almost in balance. Marb and RE are antagonistic with each other, and because Angus genetics are usually higher for Marbling, RE usually suffers reactively. The $Values could be higher - particularly $B. There are many bulls currently available with higher $B numbers, and that reflects in the income that you get from feeder cattle profits on the rail.
Remember, Chuckie, "A "good" bull is half of your herd. A POOR bull is your entire herd for years to come if you retain heifers". If you want to breed excellent cattle, you must use an excellent bull! And GOOD bulls cost money, which will be returned to you in their progeny!
I didn't mean to write a textbook on your bull, but you wanted "fight'n". :roll: :tiphat:
DOC HARRIS
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
a cow that aint in standing heat will duck out and throw a bull out of balance and injure either one other cows riding each other is where i get most problems, cause the cow is just riding..
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
KNERSIE, I put a heifer that I knew was in standing estrus in with the angus bull in the gravel holding area in front of my shop and sit myself down in a chair to watch. I saw him breed her 6 times in the span of 45 minutes. He made several mounts that did not result in penetration. I did not count those even though she had to support some of his weight during those attempted penetrations. What I observed was that he would use about three thrusts to locate her vulva. When his penis was on target, he penetrated her deeply, made about 4 thrusts and then at the climax, his penis would fully extent and he would lunge into her with his back feet off the ground. I have observed this bull do this same scenario on several other ocasions. In addition, I have seen other angus bulls breed cows in the same manner. For a second or so, the heifer/cow takes the full weight of the bull, albeit, the weight is not directly down but the weight is thrown in a forward direction. While watching this heifer being bred, I saw her collapse a couple of times. I am not sure how many more times she endured his lust over the pursuing hours but the next morning, she was fine. She is not a big heifer, maybe a 1,000 lbs. Here is the bull and heifer: sounds like a page snipped from playbull magazine :cowboy:
inyati13
Well-known member
ALACOWMAN":h9hqtwmj said:
I have seen my cow, the one I call Big Bertha, collapse more heifers and small cows than the bull. That is one of the reasons I am shippping her Monday. She is bigger than the bull and she dominates the bulling activities. Trying to ride every cow in heat. I am surprised she has not hurt one of the other cows.
OP
OP
Doc,
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
you would run the wheels off of your truck to find a bull like that........Chuckie":h2jn4meu said:Doc,
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
TexasBred
Well-known member
When we dairied we always bred on observed heat. Inyati would have been priceless on our place. :mrgreen:hooknline":7r56vdce said:
I agree Ala. It's hard to believe this bull could get picked apart after some of the crap we see on here. He is a fine animal. I would certainly use him if I liked his EPDsALACOWMAN":1bg521k6 said:you would run the wheels off of your truck to find a bull like that........Chuckie":1bg521k6 said:Doc,
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Isomade":4hpj8yi1 said:I agree Ala. It's hard to believe this bull could get picked apart after some of the crap we see on here. He is a fine animal. I would certainly use him if I liked his EPDsALACOWMAN":4hpj8yi1 said:you would run the wheels off of your truck to find a bull like that........Chuckie":4hpj8yi1 said:Doc,
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
Isomade
EVERY bull should be picked apart. If you don't, you are not doing your job.
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Chuckie":3e89pkko said:Doc,
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
Chuckie-
Read my post again! I did NOT say that I did not like your bull - for your requirements for the past several years. I said I didn't like the Genetics of his Grandsires, and what they did to their progeny. Don't jump to conclusions here. I suggested some BALANCING of his Genetics. You asked me to tell you how to "correct things", and that is what I did. I merely assessed his traits and characteristics, and tried to show you how to improve your herd values in acquiring your next bull. NO bull is perfect. Not the one you have now . . . and not the one that you will acquire in the future. You just need to improve the Genetics over the bull that you have now.
Your choice.
DOC HARRIS
OP
OP
Hang tight Doc, I am not upset by what you said about my bull. Silly Rabbit! I just want to fight old genetics and older EPD numbers. So get your spurs on!!
Chuckie ;-)
Chuckie ;-)
OP
OP
Doc,
I tried to keep on subject and not wander; stay awake, and create sentences that made sense. I failed at 2 of the above. And I didn't get to write everything that I wanted to pick about the old lineage, but I will save that for later.
Here is the reason that I remain with the current numbers of the bull in the pasture or until he plays out or I have females next year. I hope it is the latter.
I save all of my old semen sale books, and when I go back and look at the EPD's on the bulls listed in 2008, the bull's numbers that I purchased were as good as what was showing at that time period when he was 18 months old. I remember at that time, Riverbend Mile High was your favorite bull. His breeding was exactly the same breeding as my bull. My bulls grandparents on each side were as you listed, Bon View New Design 1680 and GAR Precision 1407. Mile High had the same, except it was reversed.
So, therefore he was a very popular bull and his semen was selling very well.
Now to show you how things can change, from being an 18 month old bull for example, as Mile High; then start breeding him to a lot of cows, I will show you what Mile High's numbers were in 2008 in my "ABS Spring Focus on Angus" semen catalog. Mile High was a 2003 bull, which made him a 5 year old. Then the 2nd set of numbers are where he stands today after siring so many calves. It changed his EPD's. His accuracies were in the 70's to high 80's in 2008. http://www.universalsemensales.com/node/9986
2008 EPD's 2013 EPD's
5yrs old... 10 yr old
CED +8...... +5
BW +2.0...... 2.1
WW +48...... 47
YW +93...... 91
YH +00...... 6
Milk +33...... 32
$EN -9.91...... -12.56
$W 28.66...... 32.82
$G 38.69...... 50.43
$B 64.35...... 102.39 Nice!
Marb +38...... 1.1
REA +29...... .86
FAT +.011...... -.004
My bull's accuracies are .05. There have been no calves registered under him. All the bulls calves went to commercial herds. So, he has not had any calves to change his numbers since he was a yearling. This year I will register some. My bull did have some good weights, and the bull calf that I posted a picture of weighed 1360 when he was a yearling.
When I do replace him, I will raise the numbers as much as I can, depending on what is out there and what bloodlines will be available at that time.
When I see one with good numbers, the bull will have one or several of the following: a short hip; pinched in the girth, straight shoulder and hips with hocks and pasterns on all four. Tiny gonads. Forearms like a cow. And so on……… I always have to give something up. I am not as strongly set on the BW as many are. I will purchase a bull with a 3.0. If I like the bull everywhere else, and it goes a tad bit higher, then he might come home with me. If I was worried about him, I would take a heifer and have it A.I.'ed. A heifer is a heifer once, but a cow is a cow forever. She can handle a higher weight. It also makes a difference on how the bull is put together. Sometimes a heifer or cow can take the heavier weights, but when the legs come out on the corners of the shoulders of the bull, his calves may have trouble sliding out.
Back to Mile High…..
I never did care for Mile High. I thought he had many faults, and was king of "Funnel Butts." He was one that had a straight shoulder and hip that carried down into all four legs. When I see a high headed bull, that is a sign of straight shoulder. Pretty much all the time, if they have a straight shoulder, the hip is straight too. A bull cannot get his legs up underneath his belly when he walks, so he takes short choppy steps. When he is breeding cows, he cannot hold himself against the cow because his legs will not go forward. It makes him lunge and he tries to start walking on his back legs, which causes him to fall on the cow, which is rough on the bull, and really hard on the cows. He was calf kneed, and his butt did not go with the front end. His rear end had no depth, it was so short and no amount of fat would create anything to hang off. His rear quarters looked as if it belonged to another animal. He does look like he has a big belly although and a good spring of ribs. His forearms I would like to see larger. Nice bulging
forearms on one says, "Bull!" He sort of had a chicken leg.
The Angus breed is full of the bloodlines that we dislike, and they were big contributors to pulling the breed up. Now, as each generation comes along, we can take the tools and weed out what is undesirable, and try to make it stronger. I am sure that a lot of line breeding didn't help some of the genetic problems, but if your bull checks out free, then go forward from there.
That is the fun part of breeding the cattle, is to improve your herd, have something marketable, to the public if you are selling bulls, you definitely need eye appeal. It is just so hard to get all of the factors working together. People want to see the sire and the dam, and it makes a difference.
I really do dread having to look for another bull.
Tell me a good Bull Doc that has eye appeal, good numbers, big stomach, butt, large forearms, and the bulls actually throw the calves. Give me something to think about. I have been seeing some of the new comer's calves, and I have not been real impressed with them. They are not calves that I would want out of a bull, but people jump on them because they have the name stuck to them.
I am not looking to show, but I want eye appeal since people purchase good looking bulls.
Chuckie
I tried to keep on subject and not wander; stay awake, and create sentences that made sense. I failed at 2 of the above. And I didn't get to write everything that I wanted to pick about the old lineage, but I will save that for later.
Here is the reason that I remain with the current numbers of the bull in the pasture or until he plays out or I have females next year. I hope it is the latter.
I save all of my old semen sale books, and when I go back and look at the EPD's on the bulls listed in 2008, the bull's numbers that I purchased were as good as what was showing at that time period when he was 18 months old. I remember at that time, Riverbend Mile High was your favorite bull. His breeding was exactly the same breeding as my bull. My bulls grandparents on each side were as you listed, Bon View New Design 1680 and GAR Precision 1407. Mile High had the same, except it was reversed.
So, therefore he was a very popular bull and his semen was selling very well.
Now to show you how things can change, from being an 18 month old bull for example, as Mile High; then start breeding him to a lot of cows, I will show you what Mile High's numbers were in 2008 in my "ABS Spring Focus on Angus" semen catalog. Mile High was a 2003 bull, which made him a 5 year old. Then the 2nd set of numbers are where he stands today after siring so many calves. It changed his EPD's. His accuracies were in the 70's to high 80's in 2008. http://www.universalsemensales.com/node/9986
2008 EPD's 2013 EPD's
5yrs old... 10 yr old
CED +8...... +5
BW +2.0...... 2.1
WW +48...... 47
YW +93...... 91
YH +00...... 6
Milk +33...... 32
$EN -9.91...... -12.56
$W 28.66...... 32.82
$G 38.69...... 50.43
$B 64.35...... 102.39 Nice!
Marb +38...... 1.1
REA +29...... .86
FAT +.011...... -.004
My bull's accuracies are .05. There have been no calves registered under him. All the bulls calves went to commercial herds. So, he has not had any calves to change his numbers since he was a yearling. This year I will register some. My bull did have some good weights, and the bull calf that I posted a picture of weighed 1360 when he was a yearling.
When I do replace him, I will raise the numbers as much as I can, depending on what is out there and what bloodlines will be available at that time.
When I see one with good numbers, the bull will have one or several of the following: a short hip; pinched in the girth, straight shoulder and hips with hocks and pasterns on all four. Tiny gonads. Forearms like a cow. And so on……… I always have to give something up. I am not as strongly set on the BW as many are. I will purchase a bull with a 3.0. If I like the bull everywhere else, and it goes a tad bit higher, then he might come home with me. If I was worried about him, I would take a heifer and have it A.I.'ed. A heifer is a heifer once, but a cow is a cow forever. She can handle a higher weight. It also makes a difference on how the bull is put together. Sometimes a heifer or cow can take the heavier weights, but when the legs come out on the corners of the shoulders of the bull, his calves may have trouble sliding out.
Back to Mile High…..
I never did care for Mile High. I thought he had many faults, and was king of "Funnel Butts." He was one that had a straight shoulder and hip that carried down into all four legs. When I see a high headed bull, that is a sign of straight shoulder. Pretty much all the time, if they have a straight shoulder, the hip is straight too. A bull cannot get his legs up underneath his belly when he walks, so he takes short choppy steps. When he is breeding cows, he cannot hold himself against the cow because his legs will not go forward. It makes him lunge and he tries to start walking on his back legs, which causes him to fall on the cow, which is rough on the bull, and really hard on the cows. He was calf kneed, and his butt did not go with the front end. His rear end had no depth, it was so short and no amount of fat would create anything to hang off. His rear quarters looked as if it belonged to another animal. He does look like he has a big belly although and a good spring of ribs. His forearms I would like to see larger. Nice bulging
forearms on one says, "Bull!" He sort of had a chicken leg.
The Angus breed is full of the bloodlines that we dislike, and they were big contributors to pulling the breed up. Now, as each generation comes along, we can take the tools and weed out what is undesirable, and try to make it stronger. I am sure that a lot of line breeding didn't help some of the genetic problems, but if your bull checks out free, then go forward from there.
That is the fun part of breeding the cattle, is to improve your herd, have something marketable, to the public if you are selling bulls, you definitely need eye appeal. It is just so hard to get all of the factors working together. People want to see the sire and the dam, and it makes a difference.
I really do dread having to look for another bull.
Tell me a good Bull Doc that has eye appeal, good numbers, big stomach, butt, large forearms, and the bulls actually throw the calves. Give me something to think about. I have been seeing some of the new comer's calves, and I have not been real impressed with them. They are not calves that I would want out of a bull, but people jump on them because they have the name stuck to them.
I am not looking to show, but I want eye appeal since people purchase good looking bulls.
Chuckie
Amen, Alabama. Tell us the sale barn so somebody I know can go get fat a$$ALACOWMAN":il6opizz said:you would run the wheels off of your truck to find a bull like that........Chuckie":il6opizz said:Doc,
Alright you rascal!
Hang tight, this is going to take me a bit for this to make sense. I used to could write and not have to proofread so much, but now it is difficult. After the head lick, it's like driving up a greased 45 degree hill.
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
But let me say this, you have every right to dislike the bull, and I can respect that. He is a fat a$$ old bull. We can tumble on the rest of it.
Chuckie[/quote] you would run the wheels off of your truck to find a bull like that........[/quote]
I agree Ala. It's hard to believe this bull could get picked apart after some of the crap we see on here. He is a fine animal. I would certainly use him if I liked his EPDs[/quote]
Isomade
EVERY bull should be picked apart. If you don't, you are not doing your job.
DOC HARRIS[/quote] ...theres a point it becomes nitpicking...and it does'nt do any thing, for any body....
Chuckie[/quote] you would run the wheels off of your truck to find a bull like that........[/quote]
I agree Ala. It's hard to believe this bull could get picked apart after some of the crap we see on here. He is a fine animal. I would certainly use him if I liked his EPDs[/quote]
Isomade
EVERY bull should be picked apart. If you don't, you are not doing your job.
DOC HARRIS[/quote] ...theres a point it becomes nitpicking...and it does'nt do any thing, for any body....
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Chuckie-
What a well done synopsis of your mating plans!
It seeems that we are on the same page of the same book, therefore is is needless to make "dogears" on the same page! I repeat - again - that I am not "overly criticizing" Ole Grit - only inasmuch as any bull "should" be analyzed in order to maintain one's mating protocols "up-to-date". That is mandatory. I would not argue with you in regard to continuing to use him for another year IF you can't locate a bull which will improve your current genetics, as you said.
I liked Mile High when I saw him sell at the NWSS years ago. That was eight years ago! Genetics and phenotypic representations have exacerbated and fluctuated expressly since then (thanks be!), and I would not use him today - - for many of the exact reasons to which you have alluded. "Funnel Butt "1407" as his sire is reason enough for me for disapproval!
Keep following your protocols in your breeding plans! Your thinking and analysis is correct and right insofar as future breeding agenda's are concerned.
My suggestion (for whatever it may be worth) is for you to peruse and carefully study the Genetics of cattle which you feel is in line with your current type if you wish to retain that type, or if you want to modify your current genetics and type, search for the particular traits and characteristics to which you desire, and progress from that point. But, bear in mind, whenever one changes the genetic pattern of what they have currently, it involves a lot of time (years) to modify and balance all of the traits and accuracies involved in those changes. But, that is what makes beef breeding interesting and fascinating!
DOC HARRIS
What a well done synopsis of your mating plans!
It seeems that we are on the same page of the same book, therefore is is needless to make "dogears" on the same page! I repeat - again - that I am not "overly criticizing" Ole Grit - only inasmuch as any bull "should" be analyzed in order to maintain one's mating protocols "up-to-date". That is mandatory. I would not argue with you in regard to continuing to use him for another year IF you can't locate a bull which will improve your current genetics, as you said.
I liked Mile High when I saw him sell at the NWSS years ago. That was eight years ago! Genetics and phenotypic representations have exacerbated and fluctuated expressly since then (thanks be!), and I would not use him today - - for many of the exact reasons to which you have alluded. "Funnel Butt "1407" as his sire is reason enough for me for disapproval!
Keep following your protocols in your breeding plans! Your thinking and analysis is correct and right insofar as future breeding agenda's are concerned.
My suggestion (for whatever it may be worth) is for you to peruse and carefully study the Genetics of cattle which you feel is in line with your current type if you wish to retain that type, or if you want to modify your current genetics and type, search for the particular traits and characteristics to which you desire, and progress from that point. But, bear in mind, whenever one changes the genetic pattern of what they have currently, it involves a lot of time (years) to modify and balance all of the traits and accuracies involved in those changes. But, that is what makes beef breeding interesting and fascinating!
DOC HARRIS
