Grounding Energizer

[hayray]

I live in pretty moist area so I assume my ground system is pretty good. Is there any advantage for me to use a earth return system? I put a short stretch of 5 wire high tensile on the back side of my farm as a barrier fence for this winter between the mommas and the feeders. I ran three hots and two neutrals that I stapled to the wood post. My tester reads out that I am getting 1 KV on the neutrals. I did not hook a ground rod up yet to the neutrals, should I ? This line is about a 1/4 mile away from the Energizer and ground rods. I am getting a pretty big voltage drop on the energized when I connect this short line but not detecting faults. Why am I getting the voltage in the neutrals and how should I do this? I have always just ran all hots but after reading about the earth return system it seems to make sense, especially when we get alot of snow. Thanks in advance for advice. Ray

 

[hayray]

Let me clarify that the neutrals are stapled and the hots are fully insulated, looked stupid after I re-read my post.

 

[BeefmasterB]

The following link might help describe the proper system set-up and allow you to trace the problem. I'm no expert at electric fences but I do know from experience that the grounding rod setup is pretty important - type of ground rod, length, spacing etc. If that is setup properly then it's just a matter of looking over your connections and the electrical source.

http://www.gamebit.com/LBFarms/GMS/concept3.html

 

[dun]

Test the gorund system:
http://www.gamebit.com/LBFarms/GMS/concept3.html

 

[Aaron]

How close are your neutral/ground lines to your hot lines? Hot lines give off stray voltage within 6-8 inches from the fence. That is how animals tell whether the fence is "on" or not. With close spacings, your probably getting some stray voltage resonating in that neutral line, or could just be picking up the hot wire from the few inches away.

Grounding is crucial. A good T-post-style galvanized post, 7 footer driven into the ground. Rod type galvanized rods don't work as well, you need the surface area of T-post. Also doesn't hurt to water the ground rod with a 5 gallon pail to keep the ground good and wet. You need 3 ground rods for every 5 joules I believe, with an automatic minimum of 3 for any-size energizer. So for a 10 joule energizer, you should have 6, and spaced out from each other in a star-pattern, not a straight line, with 5-7 feet between each rod. :cowboy:

 

[tytower]

I think its supposed to work like the cow touches the hot wire ,the small current high voltage passes through its body to ground through the feet. The neutral wire ,if earthed would give a course through the muzzel say to ground. If the neutral isn't grounded then the charge would still go through the hooves. I would say better to ground the neutral wire .

All the 110 volt and 240 volt house poles are wired this way too . Neutral to ground . Did you know that ? Makes a joke of our system of a third earth wire and double insulation on tools when they all go back to ground anyway

 

[hayray]

How close are your neutral/ground lines to your hot lines? Hot lines give off stray voltage within 6-8 inches from the fence. That is how animals tell whether the fence is "on" or not. With close spacings, your probably getting some stray voltage resonating in that neutral line, or could just be picking up the hot wire from the few inches away.

Grounding is crucial. A good T-post-style galvanized post, 7 footer driven into the ground. Rod type galvanized rods don't work as well, you need the surface area of T-post. Also doesn't hurt to water the ground rod with a 5 gallon pail to keep the ground good and wet. You need 3 ground rods for every 5 joules I believe, with an automatic minimum of 3 for any-size energizer. So for a 10 joule energizer, you should have 6, and spaced out from each other in a star-pattern, not a straight line, with 5-7 feet between each rod. :cowboy:

Aaron, I think that is what is happening is the neutrals are picking up some of the stray voltage. I have 6 ground rods on a 10 joule energizer and we are pretty moist right now. I think it has been years since I have seen a galvanized t-post, where are you buying them? How about large galvinized steel pipe? How are you clamping the wire to the t-post?

 

[Aaron]

I get the galvanized rods at my local feed store. Gallagher makes them.

Here is a pic of the clamp and post I am referring too:

http://www.cattlestore.com/pc-564-83-ga ... clamp.aspx

Galvanized steel pipe will work. Just drill a hole though the wall of one end to attach the ground wire with a galvanized bolt and nut. :cowboy:

 

[lavacarancher]

As with any electrical circuit you need to complete the path of current to be effective. When one side of a fencer is tied to ground through a long ground rod the path of conduction is from the hot wire through the animal and out its hooves to ground - complete path.

If you have a hot, neutral, hot, neutral, etc then the path will have to be from the hot through the animal's nose (or whatever part comes in contact) back to the neutral, not ground. I guess what I'm trying to point out is that the animal will have to contact TWO wires at the same time for the fencer to be effective where as if one side of the fencer is grounded then the animal will only have to come in contact with one wire, any hot wire, to get shocked. This make sense folks?

 

[KenB]

I think its supposed to work like the cow touches the hot wire ,the small current high voltage passes through its body to ground through the feet. The neutral wire ,if earthed would give a course through the muzzel say to ground. If the neutral isn't grounded then the charge would still go through the hooves. I would say better to ground the neutral wire .

All the 110 volt and 240 volt house poles are wired this way too . Neutral to ground . Did you know that ? Makes a joke of our system of a third earth wire and double insulation on tools when they all go back to ground anyway

A third earth wire and double insulation on tools is not a joke.
The ground wire is to divert the voltage to ground instead of you if the neutral wire is lost.

 

[Douglas]

My energizer is grounded by a strand of ht line on the fence. It is grounded about 200 yards away in a creek bottom. This make any sense?

 

[tytower]

A third earth wire and double insulation on tools is not a joke.
The ground wire is to divert the voltage to ground instead of you if the neutral wire is lost.

Well actually thats not quite right . The system is designed as I understand it to have a second earthing line as well as the neutral earthing line and the earth wire is supposed to be a shorter course .Electricity like lightening will always take the shorter course but the problem is just as much energy will pass through either the short or the long route. The main fuse box is usually earthed to the earth circuit and the neutral line to the pole's earth at the nearest pole. If you put your finger on the live wire you will get a shock no matter which earth is the return circuit as it will go to ground if you are earthed anywhere.

Now Residual Current Devices were developed because they were needed to stop the surge of current through any course. These are your protectors and these work . Every house should have one or more fitted on all power circuits ,lights stoves etc . Thats what saves lives.

 

[hardyboy]

Neutral and ground are tied TOGETHER in your breaker box. Ground is for safety. Let's say that the hot wire in your washing machine comes loose and touches the metal side. you touch the washing machine lid and get shocked.

By having a ground wire going to the machines metal case, if the hot wire comes loose and touches the washer the circuit breaker will trip