Going to look at some Hereford's tomorrow

[CowgirlUpNY]

We are new to raising cattle, and are doing it mainly for our own consumption along with selling maybe one or two.

DH normally comes home with something from the auction, and then I bust my hump to try to save it. Mostly with not much luck. Tomorrow we are going to a farm to have a look and I'm wondering what do I want to look for, because ultimately husband will look to me for the yes or no on who to choose.

I've been doing some reading and think I may have a handle on the basics. Position of tailhead, form of legs, head up or drooping, eyes/nose clear, no coughing.

Can anyone clue me in on what else to look for???

TIA

 

[cattleluvr18]

excellent choice of breed. i love herefords..after my dad dies im changin to all herefords...but enough about me...

all the things you listed are good to look for. are you gonna be showing any or not? well actually it probably doesnt matter. make sure they have a straight back and it doesnt swoop or nothing. make sure they have a nice butt and not some dinky little funnel butt. always seein that they are healthy is a good starting point. im sure others could add alot more to the list.

 

[CowgirlUpNY]

I'm enjoying the herefords that we have. We've got a heifer that is actually going to slaughter soon, a bull that will be 1 in May. We also have a black baldy (he was an auction bull that we castrated) And then we have our 'lap cow'. That would be "moo" (yup that's his name) and he's my big, baby brown swiss. He's another auction save. Husband brought him (and two others) home for our daughter right after she was born. He's become our lawn ornament and will probably grow old here. We put sooooooo much into him trying to save him and he really is a good cow. Kind of like an Uncle to everyone in the field.

 

[dun]

Disposition first then feet and legs. Then capacity, length, width, top-line, angle between hooks and pins.

dun

 

[Bez>]

We are new to raising cattle, and are doing it mainly for our own consumption along with selling maybe one or two.

DH normally comes home with something from the auction, and then I bust my hump to try to save it. Mostly with not much luck. Tomorrow we are going to a farm to have a look and I'm wondering what do I want to look for, because ultimately husband will look to me for the yes or no on who to choose.

I've been doing some reading and think I may have a handle on the basics. Position of tailhead, form of legs, head up or drooping, eyes/nose clear, no coughing.

Can anyone clue me in on what else to look for???

TIA

I have written extensively - and I do mean extensively on this topic -here is one that I retreived for you - it will give you a good start. While we do have a few horned Herfs around - the breed truly is not important - what follows is what matters - in my opinion.

Bez>

---------------------------

Well, you asked for a beginners animal - I think all the replies are sorta' ok - but they all miss the mark in my opinion.

You want a mature cow. Vet checked. Quiet. Safe in calf - preferably with calf at side. The breed does not matter. Age is not a real important issue as long as they are healthy breeders. You will cull over the first few years - but you will get a few calves out of the older animals.

You do NOT want something that will give you calving probs - you will have them soon enough anyway.

When you go to buy them - do it in this manner:

Go with at least one person you can trust to help you - someone who knows cows.

Know what you are prepared to pay - well in advance of looking.

The animals should be in a field - NOT a pen.

You will walk amongst them. They will not run away or run at you. If they do - leave.

You will get all the records from the seller. If there are none - leave.

You will help pen them for the vet - any trouble makers stay in the field - and stay there - not at your place.

Any wall climbers stay there.

Any fence crawlers stay there.

You will not take anything that does not have a vaccination regime - things can happen long after you get them home.

You will be there when they are vet checked. You will pay for the checking on the cattle you take. The vendor will pay for the others.

You will split the cost of the vet call.

I have probably missed a few things, but the neighbour brought over a couple of beers - something I have not had in a long time due to financial constraints - so I am somewhat fogged in at the moment.

You do not need more than 10 to start - a nice little herd to build upon while you learn.

Finally - remember - the breed is not important - the herd mentality is - especially if you are new to the game.

There will be others that can add to what I have missed - after all I am an old fart and have forgotten how to tie my shoes without help from the nurse.

Have fun, and enjoy your cows.

Let us know how it goes,

Bez

-------------------------------

Here is another:


--------------------------------------------------------
I do not know you and you do not know me – but I think I am going to keep this on file as my standard answer to this regular question.
You mention nothing about your esperience, or your infrastructure and so on – so there is some pretty basic stuff here that you need to know – if you do not – it's a learning day. If you do – then accept my apologies for boring you.

These are animals - not pets. They are tough, ornery, eating machines that one day will run you over and the next day look at you with a calmness that you cannot believe. They are one heck of a great hobby - that is how wife and I got started in the business years ago. Love 'em, but if you spoil 'em you will end up with problems.

As for breeds - well, any beef cow that can live in Canada can live in the U.S. of A. - some may do better than others - but darned near every breed you have down south is found in Canada. I happen to like the British breeds and run HH – but that does not mean you have to stay British. If you have the right kind of ground and the right kind of feed they will ALL do well.

Just remember this little tidbit ... and this is important - you probably do not have experience in breeding, calving and doctoring. Not a slur, just a fact - so find something that will not crush you when something goes wrong - and believe me, it sooner or later will.

Nearly all breeds do well - especially if they can be contained, sheltered, fed and watered. That's it in a nutshell. The rest is easy.

We all have our favourites - but who cares if you have a patchwork quilt of animals in the field - if they are solid, quiet animals with calves at side - well, be happy.

Go cheap. Go with pairs. Instant moms that are bred back. Go with quiet. Do not ask what breed – at this stage you had better not care - it is not important, walk in amongst them before you buy - if they are gone like deer - then forget them. If they jump, fight or run you - run for your truck. If they load hard - run for your truck and leave. If they are not vet checked and preg checked - with you present - run for your truck and put your money away for another day. Split the call out fee – you pay vet bills for the ones you take – vendor pays for the ones you do not.
Go with mature to prevent calving probs and mothers who disown or kill their calves with starvation - not common, but it does happen. Go private - not sale barn - do not buy someone elses trouble – unless it is a TOTAL herd dispersal – and these can be real good sales to go to. Tell the owner you WILL be back if there are problems that may have been hidden. Get all their records - herd health, vaccinations, dates of birth, and so on. If those records are not available - run for your truck.

Look up my thread - Ding! Dong! Brindles Dead - and avoid any brindles like crazy - no matter what the breed. Perhaps I am just superstitious?

Find an old hand in your area - have him go with you and look at least 5 different outfits before you make up your mind - that way you have an idea of what you are up against. Bargain hard - know your price before you leave your own driveway and stick to it. Don't deviate - there are lots of really good animals out there for sale.

Have a good fence, SOLID FENCE IS BEST, some feed and water available when they show up at home - even quiet animals can become tornadoes for a day or two. If your penning area is small and poorly fenced, plan on searching for them for a couple of days before they settle in.

Others who back me – and I quickly found two – both know their stuff:

Craig-Tx wrote:
But if you're wanting a few cows that will pay their own way why not buy cheap pairs. Then you know she can calve. Buy young momma cows that look somewhat poor but sound. Or buy 6-8 year old sound cows with light calves at their sides. You will get a pair for $hundreds less than a fancy cow will cost and you'll be amazed at what she will look like next year if you've put her on good grass and taken care of her thru the winter. She might not be anything to brag about but you'll be in the money on her next calf. The same principle, with a little more risk, can be applied to young bred cows. And same for bulls.

Old Timer wrote:

Craig- I agree with you-- If you just want to run a few cows the best money is in buying a few older bred cows--many places cull them when they lose 1 tooth (sometimes only 4-5 years old) or hit 10 years of age-- Sell for $350- 500 as brokenmouths - Some of these cows have several years left in them if you have good pasture-- I've bought them over the years just to put on one good pasture I have and probably made more off them than some of the ones I raised-- Altho this year those same cows that were selling for $400 are now selling for $800-900..... Might just have to run some of the old girls one more year on that pasture.

So, it looks like there are three of us in the same boat. Start slow and build. You have enough ground, but do you have enough experience and time to handle more than 10 – 15? A good number for a beginner with your ground available. Sell the excess hay for the first couple of years. Do not sell it until January – by then you'll know what you need for the remainder of the year.

If you plan to sell them - make sure that you are selling into an accepting crowd. As an example - if the area you are in loves that black hide, you will suffer with a dollar penalty by trying to sell red. In my area black AND red are guaranteed to sell 10 - 20 cents a pound less than a TAN colour. Go figure - if you take the clothes off of them 99% of producers could not tell you what breed they were. Do your homework. If you want to go "exotic" fine – be darned sure they are quiet and you can handle them.

Far as I am concerned - solid animal is good - but cheaper is better.

Calves all sell - you just want good 'uns. Healthy and lively.

Get all your fences in order FIRST!

Probably missed a few things – but you get the idea.

Go for it - have fun and welcome to an interesting life - that of a cattleman!

Regards

Bez
--------------------------

Times and prices have changed, but the facts and requirements stay the same. They need a good fence - very little shelter, good grass or hay, mineral and water. If you need to do much more you do not want them. The LESS you have to put into the animal the MORE profit you are likely to make.

Best of luck,

Bez>

 

[Bez>]

Finally - there are others that I have written - concerning handling facilities and such. Most people get it wrong - we did once as well.

Do not get the animals until you have good fences, at least one SOLID pen - with 6 foot or better high walls - that will hold all of your animals. Put their water in this pen - that way they will come up every day - easy to catch.

Have a way to restrain the ainmal - sooner or later you will have to do this - this means a chute and a squeeze or head gate - or a home made system - they all work and they all are good. But have this in place before the animals arrive - otherwise I guarandamntee you that you will need it soon after the animals arrive.

Murphy always strikes when you are least prepared.

Do your home work and do it well. Do not buy minis and expect to sell at a sale barn. Do not buy some African abortion and plan to sell to commercial guys. Do not buy black and try to sell into a red market. You get my drift.

Others can add as they see fit - there is a ton of other info but at least you now have a start.

Have fun.

Bez>

 

[CowgirlUpNY]

Bez, thanks so much. I really enjoy reading your threads of wisdom.

 

[ilfarmer92]

Bez EXCELLENT POSTS :clap:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Finally - there are others that I have written - concerning handling facilities and such. Most people get it wrong - we did once as well.

Do not get the animals until you have good fences, at least one SOLID pen - with 6 foot or better high walls - that will hold all of your animals. Put their water in this pen - that way they will come up every day - easy to catch.

Have a way to restrain the ainmal - sooner or later you will have to do this - this means a chute and a squeeze or head gate - or a home made system - they all work and they all are good. But have this in place before the animals arrive - otherwise I guarandamntee you that you will need it soon after the animals arrive.

Murphy always strikes when you are least prepared.

Do your home work and do it well. Do not buy minis and expect to sell at a sale barn. Do not buy some African abortion and plan to sell to commercial guys. Do not buy black and try to sell into a red market. You get my drift.

Others can add as they see fit - there is a ton of other info but at least you now have a start.

Have fun.

Bez>

Old Murphy your neighbor too.

 

[Bez>]

Caustic - Yeah - Murphy lives real close to our place. Somtimes I wish he would just up and move - but no matter how hard I try I cannot seem to drive him away permanently.

For others - the above is simply an example of what can be found if you truly do a search of past postings.

I am not a god and I am not the only one who has done this. But I am a person who has lots and lots of posts like this if you go looking. I am an old, grey haired, fat and balding, cynical, harsh and not always correct person - nothing more and nothing less.

I have been rich and I have been bankrupt. I have run as many as 400 plus head of mommas and I have had as few as none.

I have made more mistakes than probably any 20 people on this board combined.

I have worked animals with horses and machinery and this family has had some good times showing and I might add - winning - but I stay away from that area of the boards a lot - too many egoes and arrogance and not enough humility and helping - cattle folks can be bad - no offense folks but you horse people can be the worst. SOme good, but I am too old to search it out any more.

There are many on this board who know far - far - more than me.

That is why God gave us one mouth, two eyes and two ears.

Speak less and look and listen more. I often need to remember my own advice!

There are at least three or four others who have done the same on this board.

Search, search and search. There is a ton of info here. I am actually considering mining the database for personal reasons.

Some times it is better to ask what the ideal search words would be than it is to ask the specific question. I have yet to see many original questions! Mostly all repeats on about a 3-5 month rotational basis.

Each season brings more of the same - spring for calving, summer for rain on hay or breeding issues, fall for feeding and winter for wasting hay.

Year round for whole or cracked corn, mechanical stuff, epd's (what are they again?) and sometimes fencing - depending on where everyone lives. Then there is the person who always waits far to long - then asks for veterinarian advice when in fact the veterinarian should have been out to the farm already.

While it is fun to diagnose - there are very few here who are truly qualified. So - FORM A RELATIONSHIP with your local veterinarian. If you do not like him or her - FIND ANOTHER- ASAP!

Do it today - do not wait until you need one - then it is too late.

Spend some money and have that veterinarian out to the farm in the spring and / or in the fall for a herd health check - that is one expense many disagree with - but all you have to do is read this board to understand how many would actually benefit from this. We do it.

Sooner or later you WILL need that person!!

What each question shows, is that there are many people who enjoy the game but they do not know much about it - and they do have to learn.

It also shows - despite some "straight to the point advice" that often offends delicate constitutions of some folks - there are many out there who have the smarts to pass solid information on the the newbie.

Enjoy your cattle and do not worry "if it is a day over due, or if it is raining, or the cow looks lonely, etc, etc.

God and Mother Nature have a way of looking after things far better than we can.

Have a good one,

Bez>

 

[CowgirlUpNY]

Good advice yet again Bez.

And maybe I should post this somewhere else, but just how do you use the search engine? I tried searching for that Ding! Dong! thread that was mentioned in your earlier post and did not do well. Are there 'tricks to the trade' for searching past posts?

 

[Gate Opener]

Bez> you make good sense even when you are lit.

 

[Bez>]

Bez> you make good sense even when you are lit.

Thanks - I think!

Bez>

 

[Bez>]

Good advice yet again Bez.

And maybe I should post this somewhere else, but just how do you use the search engine? I tried searching for that Ding! Dong! thread that was mentioned in your earlier post and did not do well. Are there 'tricks to the trade' for searching past posts?

To search this board - go to the top and click on search.

That will take you to the search section - enter in your key words and author and hit the "enter" button on your computer.

I entered "Ding! Dong! and the author - "Bez" and I found this:
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Story goes like this ....

Wife bought a cow. Three years ago. She should have known better, but she liked the markings!

Cow was a brindle. Every danged brindle I have ever known has had an attitude. (Someone is going to disagree with me). But, this is not only a true story - it is my story ....

Cow comes home from .. well, wherever. And proceeds to have a nice calf. Owner (wife) and owners owner (me) go to check the calf. Brindle objects rather violently. But owners owner (that may cause an eyebrow to be raised) manages to beat her off with a six foot aluminum grounding rod.

Back to the calf. Now I am sitting on this calf. Very quiet calf. Takes the needle of selenium and vitamins with no noise. Then I tag the calf - in the left ear as is the tradition on this place. Calf bawls and Brindle comes ready to do battle again. Owners owner jumps up and runs to a tree in the bush. Brindles calf - being confused - follows owners owner - and so follows Brindle. Brindle is frothing and owners owner is climbing.

Coyote problems are bad. So owner brow beats owners owner into submission and Brindle stays. I hate it when I lose an argument, but we never lost a calf to any dog after Brindle arrived.

Funny, but owner never has a problem with Brindle. Owners owner on the other hand does battle in the field, in the pens, in the chutes, in the squeeze and on the truck. Owners owner has a hate that grows to unheard of proportions. Brindle actually goes out of her way to cause owners owner grief. She stands at the gate and defies owners owner to come in. Owners owner is not stupid, and therefore is still alive.

Owner goes away one day. Owners owner actually gets the rifle and ammo out. This is the day of salvation. Rrriiing. It is the phone. Owners is less than 10 minutes out the driveway when she calls owners owner and states flat out - "I have a feeling you might want to dispose of Brindle. If you do you will regret it." Owners owner tucks his tail between his legs and puts rifle back in closet. Dang, she can read minds at long range!

Next year Brindle has nice calf. This time owner walks Brindle out of the field before owners owner will check calf. Same story - calf bawls and owners owner climbs tree - might have been the same tree. Fence has never been the same though.

Two weeks ago daughter comes to owner and owners owner and asks if the family will donate a cow to the local girls hockey team. They are on their way to Europe for a tournament and she wants to help raise her share of the trip money.

Brindle does not have calf this year! Hooray!

Local abbotoir does the work for free (good cause) and Brindle is placed in one pound packages on the table in the school auto shop. Brindle is sold out in less than 15 minutes and girls have more money for trip.

All day long I have been humming that darned tune - Ding! Dong! The Brindle's dead, the Brindle's dead.

Now ex owner is unhappy with me - but I can once again roam my fields and check my cows .....

Nite all,

Bez
------------------------------

Some day I am going to develop that story line and send it in to Cowboy Magazine.

Regards,

Bez

 

[CowgirlUpNY]

Great story! and thanks for the 'how to' on searching. I was trying to use that search on the bottom of the page, which obviously would explain why I wasn't successful.

By the by, went to look at those cows today. Now I'm not up on all the lingo and breeds and what not. He (seller) had two red/whites, one heifer, one bull (will be castrated) and then another black/white heifer (is that a black baldy or a black/white hereford, I think someone told me once there is no such thing as a black/white hereford, that it's actually referred to as a black baldy and it is a HerefordX) Overall, they looked pretty decent and dam/sire were there as well and pretty good looking to this untrained eye. They're a hair under a year old. Once I gave husband the nod that I think they looked like we wanted them to look, he negotiated the price. We'll be picking them up sometime this week, when seller can get them seperated from the rest of the herd without too much trouble.

We were able to walk among them for the most part, they just could have cared less that we were there, they were too busy easting. Cute little calf he had there too, just a wandering among us, and with a recent post I was wondering how momma would behave, but she was very quiet about the whole thing.

Well that's my days' experience. Hopefully we made the right decisions. It's really hard on the head, heart and wallet when Husband comes home with something from the auction and it doesn't live. Hopefully HE learned his lesson this time around.